Kerry meets the troops

[wulfie]

Originally posted by demaw1
Wulfe....german army

    Can you give me a referance, not because i dont believe you ,but because I have never read that,   would like to study it. If needed I can give you some.  every military historian I read gave a different view ,of course ,I have only read American authors.There were singlar commanders like Gudariun that tried to instill this with some success but not on the whole. Also I you dont have any handy thats fine between work,family and projects dont have much time.

DeMaw1,

There's a very good book called 'Fighting Power: German and U.S. Army Performance, 1939-1945' - it's used by the USMC and it explains in detail the theory, doctrine, tactics, development of all, etc. of the German armed forces in WW2. It goes into great detail about battlefield leadership, etc. There's also some specific papers that were written by U.S. Army officers after WW2 and if you can wait a few months I've got the paper ID #s and you can order copies of the papers themselves.

The short and grossly simplified version is this - WW2 Germany had a professional army and had had one for some time. WW2 America had a small professional cadre leading a 'conscript' (in terms of military skill - I know many were volunteers) army. Mistakes were made - promising battlefield NCOs and Officers in the U.S. Army were often promoted out of battlefield leadership. This, combined with the USAAF and armored units getting the 'pick of the litter' in terms of replacements led to the actual infantry units of the U.S. Army having to deal with some very severe situations in terms of adequate #s of experiened battlefield NCOs and Officers, etc.

I would love to get you some links to great sources but I am really pressed for free time right now. And with the 438 page application for FDB membership still unfinished I really have to get going. I'll look you up in a couple of months.

Mike/wulfie

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Jackal1
OK, maybe I missed it...
   
  According to them, on the day they got married ,they did not have enough money to eat at  one of the finer establishments to celebrate their wedding , so they dined at Wendys. ... Miss Ketchup and Tomatoe sauce worth millions, no make that billions, couldn`t  afford anything but Wendys?

It is a tradition of  Mr. & Mrs Edwards, not the Kerrys.

[cheap shot] It looks like Mrs. Edwards eats there more than once a year[/cheap shot]

[demaw1]

Wuffle,      Thank you very much.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by demaw1
Straffo...I believe ya , language I am sure was the problem,I honestly cant imagine anyone saying our military have no guts.

This is the problem as I see it. Here we have some foreigners (in this case, French), trying to have a discussion in English. Some here misinterpret the basic message of what they're trying to say. Instead of continuing in a civil, mature manner, we tend to start with the countrybashing and mudslinging.
With all that's been said, do you really think Straffo and anyone else here truly Hates us? He made a statement based on an image which he misinterpreted. He made his statement based on the customs of the French military as he understood it. Instead of asking for clarification, some have to jump on the "he hates America!" bandwagon and start throwing real insults his way. A wee bit over the top, over sensitive reactions, don't you think?
Or do you REALLY think he hates America?

Originally posted by demaw1
SABUROS....just a couple points.
   I think you again jump at America a little to fast, Straffo early on call them cowards doesnt matter the content he did...There are still enough of us left in America that will react to that and not bash America first.

Hold your horses, sir! Since when am I "jumping at America?!" Who here is the sole voice of America? Who voted them in? Because I happen to disagree with a fellow American, I'm jumping at America? So, what's it gonna be? No disagreements? No arguments? Who the hell put you in charge to make judgements like that? I sure as hell don't go around whining that someone is "anti-American" just because of some disagreements on a BBS.

Some here need a clue to what an America hater, and Anti-American is. It sure isn't some members of a Flight Sim BBS that volunteer to have some discussions/disagreements on current topics. Our REAL enemies aren't typing on this BBS, they are busy planning their next attack. Save your hate for our enemies. They deserve it. This BBS is like a big family. We're on the same side. No one here wishes us ill will.

Let's keep this in context shall we?


 

Originally posted by demaw1
Straffo has called me a few names,dont care they werent harmfull..lol not like borodas...still sofften up a little, we all have been calling each outer names since our sisters took our first bottle from us .Also it just isnt in here,but the world does it every day, day in day out .

Here's the difference. Go back and look at straffo's posts (I'm only going by memory here). You show me where he puts down our country? Yet we bash his. There's a difference from insulting one individually and that of insulting their whole country. I seem to recall his individual insults came after someone bashed his country.

Don't take out on him (or anyone else in this BBS) what is deserved of our enemies. He's just not our enemy. If you can't see that, then I feel sorry for you.

If you see him make a comment that you take exception to, then respond like the mature adults we're supposed to be, with questions and facts. Chances are it's an interpretation thing. Different culture, different language. I'll say it again, the French people posting here are not our enemy. They do not hate America. They are our friends, our guests. Let's try and be civil, eh?

 

Originally posted by demaw1
 about selective memory: yes we had french help in the form of mercinaries...and yes after 2 years ben franklin with help from lafeeatte[please forgivespellingI have no idea but he was an amazing man] managed to send a french fleet..but,the fleet
stayed away from any fighting unless they found a british ship by itself goin home or coming in.Near the end of the war[no certain time] after washington crossed the delaware Lord Nelson said [forsure paraphasing]  We british will lose this war,not because they are mightier or braver than us ,but because I now know we are fighting a spiritual war and for the first time in Englands history God is on their side.He sent this message back to England 2 ways.The French captured 1 of the ships and read the dispatch.They waited untill they were sure of American victory before entering the war as they didnt want a war with England.Yes they picked the right time to come in,  but the war was near over anyway.This does not deminish what they did,just tells a little of the geo politics at the time.

...and if they didn't enter on our behalf, the English might of kept fighting. Who knows?

demaw1,
Don't take what I've posted here as an attack against you or against America. It isn't. It's all about interpretation. I know you love our country. Heck everyone here loves their country. You know what? I also love my country and its people, more than you'll ever know. So much so, that I care about how we look to outsiders when we reduce our discussions into childish rants and mudslinging.
Because we can insult the loudest and biggest does not make us look good.

You may agree or disagree with what I said. In anycase I won't hate anyone here. We're just not enemies.
Regards.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by SaburoS
With all that's been said, do you really think Straffo and anyone else here truly Hates us? He made a statement based on an image which he misinterpreted. He made his statement based on the customs of the French military as he understood it. Instead of asking for clarification, some have to jump on the "he hates America!" bandwagon and start throwing real insults his way. A wee bit over the top, over sensitive reactions, don't you think?
Or do you REALLY think he hates America?
.

........................Or maybe we could just ask ourselves" who really gives a rat`s bellybutton one way or another?" and try to struggle on.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Jackal1
........................Or maybe we could just ask ourselves" who really gives a rat`s bellybutton one way or another?" and try to struggle on.

Amen.

I never understood why people get upset when those who are completely insignificant get their panties in a bunch.  It reminds me of that ant colony I dug up while putting in my pool.  I'm sure they were nice ants and I'm sure they were a little put off that I dug up their home, but ultimately, who cares.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
It is a tradition of  Mr. & Mrs Edwards, not the Kerrys.

[cheap shot] It looks like Mrs. Edwards eats there more than once a year[/cheap shot]

Wheeew..your right. My bad.
  That puts things into a whole new light.
  We all know what a financial struggle they have had through life.

[demaw1]

Saburo.......reply

   Of course I dont think you attacked me,and straffo is fine like I said he never said anything my sister hasnt emmm or my wife lol.
 No I dont think straffo hates America,by the same token he doesnt like what America stands for or most Americans.Thats ok I dont like the french gov. or most of the french [explaining this is not the point yet]

   How can I put this,I believe you only have a sprinkling of todays liberalism mixed with a lot of 20 years ago liberalism.[easy lol] Most conservatives today are like me , except on civil rights, we are just a little to the right of jfk and on civil rights we are a little to the left.Most of us didnt leave the democratic party ,it left us.

   I said all that to say this,you tend to see good in everyone and it takes alot to change your mind,unless it is about americans or america .Now that was simplistic in the interist of space.Not a put down,that is just  liberals,of course to varing degrees. I see that mans heart is evil from day one and you have to judge actions.

   We did not jump on him because he is french but because he called 2 of or brothers in uniform cowards,nothing else matters.
   .Many off us went thru the veitnam thing,I might be wrong, but we are not going to allow anyone in this country or abroad treat our brothers and sisters like before.If it is in here or on the street,If we have to have counter protest what ever it takes.

   Also remember I said liberals only want to see something good in some one? On our side of the isle we remember that recently 65 percent of europeans believe America is more of a threat to the world than  the terriosts.We remember frances role in all this and the fact she was stealing billions from the food for oil deal,and then blamed us for the so called starving kids.Day in and day out, most of these countries, or there newspapers,, or our newspapers ,or many liberals in some way, bash America or Americans.

  45percent of canadas kids say we are evil and the cause of worlds problems. Under these circumstances take a step back and look at what happened.1.  everything was normal untill he said the marines were cowards 2 In the real world ,thats it ,here or in a bar, or on school grounds. 3 some responses were hard,some mild I think mine was in the middle,but respond we will.4. after a bit some of us decided there was more to it than what was on the surface..look at what I said to him before I posted to you,others did the same and some didnt.thats it end of story.It is not up to us to know about his lanaguage,or traditions or anything else and when he said it was a mistake we accepted it for the most part.

    So no it was not over the top....no one me included thinks we are the sole voice of america....clarification wasnt needed,all of us here and around the world knows what the word coward means....it was me that said I thought you jump at america a little to fast and under the circumstances and the sequance of events I still do. Yet I fail to see where I was trying to stop debate or arguement or anything.

     The bbs is not a big family,it is people as you can see devided as the country is liberal and conservative, no big deal here in bbs that I can see.....

 Saburo, you got to wake up and smell the coffee,yes there are those in here that hate america, and americans..
   There are americans in here that dispise america,conservatives,and christians. Just the way it is.

    But most of all,most of the world hates us.We stand for something,most of us know evil from good...Those that ignore or embrace evil will always hate those that reconize and fight evil.

 Respectfully,demaw

PS  i will go back and look at straffo post.

[straffo]

(a very quick and short post)

Like I explained I over reacted thinking they were subject to the same rugulation the French troop have.
Plus I admit my post was far from clear (I guess it's what happen when you write 1st in French then translate)

I was wrong and I apologise for this.

Never my intent was to bash the Marine corp,never was my intent to bash Americas troop even if my post it let think it was the case.

(I hope it's clear now)

Otherwise if I had be an America basher at heart I'll have jumped on the bandwagon about the  Abou Ghraib affair to have cheap shot on the US troops.
I don't have.

I plead guilty to over reacting from time to time even being close to perfection myself (I'm French you know ) and almost a living deity .
For the rest I represent me and myself only I don't pretend all the French think like me or share my opinion , don't take my words as the official position of France (don't take either Chirac word too )

I've to leave,I will complete this post later.

Ps : those frequenting the O'club should know that when someone throw mud at France I thow mud myself with an equal or more violent intensity.
But if you have a legitimate interrogation and stay civil I'll even give informations about what ashame me in my country , I don't think my country is all white and innocent ,some decision made for the "good" of my country still ashame me (think of the Rainbow Warrior for example).

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by straffo
(I'm French you know )
I've to leave,I will complete this post later.

Ps : those frequenting the O'club should know that when someone throw mud at France I thow mud myself with an equal or more violent intensity.
.

 Naw, your French. You throw like a girly man.

[Saintaw]

Straffo, I thought they taught you not to play with turds when you were a kid... I see you still enjoy stirring it

[Preon1]

I've been searching for this story on the web...  I can't find it on anything other than blog sites.  Isn't it funny that there's no mention of it in the established media?  You think that picture will just fade away now?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Preon1
I've been searching for this story on the web...  I can't find it on anything other than blog sites.  Isn't it funny that there's no mention of it in the established media?  You think that picture will just fade away now?

No, it is not in the least surprising. You expect the media to put out something like that about their chosen boy?

[straffo]

Originally posted by Jackal1
Naw, your French. You throw like a girly man.

Well perhaps after October it will be very "tendance"/"fashion"

[Martlet]

Originally posted by straffo
Well perhaps after October it will be very "tendance"/"fashion"

Not if the negative "bounce" he received after the high point of his campaign is any indication.