Author Topic: Realistic Play (Read 2047 times)

TheBeeg · « **Reply #30 on:** July 31, 2004, 11:58:20 PM »

Daaaaam, we've got a lot of very interesting opinions. Let me add a couple. First of all I've learned from playing sims for 6 years that you can't force anybody to accept your opinion. What I'm interested in is identifying and flying with others that somewhat agree with mine e.g. I suspect that everybody would agree that it's smarter to fly with a wingman but everybody should also recognize that flying a sim isn't real life and we lack the greatest asset a RL pilot has (peripheral vision). It's hard to to actually fly wing for another in here. Not impossible but harder to keep tabs on your flight leader's location. Once a sortie is over I want to switch roles so I can get a shot at a kill with someone obsessed with protecting "my" butt. I love scenarios and missions with a purpose and plan. I'm very suspicious of words like "fun" and "game" because I suspect that they're mostly used in these sims to justify unrealistic behaviors. I have fun but I like to have fun by fantazising that I'm a WW2 fighter pilot winning a hard earned victory after a sweaty palms dogfight. I have no illusions about keeping people out of the fray just because they got killed. Bring 'em back in but let them have to fly some distance before becoming a threat. I suspect that pin point radar and Tokyo Rose's sultry voice telling me the base is under attack kind of detract from the realism. Hell, I should be able to see that the damn base is under attack. As I said, I love the fantasy of the game and as someone called it a "mindset". I'm an old dude and believe me this is no different than playing cowboys and indians (is that politically correct?) when I was a kid. I love "themed" events here and did so when I flew in WB also. I don't like bright red icons to show me who to shoot and I totally dislike and from RL experience know that CAVU days only happen 2 days a year. Give me some haze, mist and enemies that fade in and out of view as they would in real life. There is one opinion I hold that gets me in trouble a lot. That is that this is a military simulation. How can one have a military simulation without somebody giving and someone else taking orders and I've heard the "I took orders in the army and I ain't gonna take them here" sing-song. My bottom line feeling is that it's better to have a small group of people dedicated to more realistic battles in the CT than to bring in a bunch of people who would be just as happy playing video shoot-em-ups. Well, that's how I like to play and believe me it is play as the best thing that any of these sims give us is the "illusion" of fighter combat. These airplanes aren't real and even RL pilots with a couple of hundred hours in complex aircraft would wind up dead if they attempted to fly a real WW2 fighter without an intensive check out. Enjoy the fantasy my overgrown little friends

TheBeeg

TheBeeg · « **Reply #31 on:** August 01, 2004, 12:01:13 AM »

Exactly!!! It's all in the head and I wish I could take my own advice consistently.

Quote

Originally posted by Dennis
I'm curious where folks got this idea that there is a "re-enactment camp" among CT fliers.

I've read (and re-read) TheBeeg's post, and all he seems to be suggesting is that we might get more out of the game if we approach it differently. The changes he suggests are more "inside the head" than inside the arena.

Not that some of the gameplay changes subsequently suggested in this thread are bad ... it's just that they're not necessary to get your head into a '40-45 frame of mind. The arena already has the tools and atmosphere for that. (ToD will be even better suited) From that point, it's up to you.

And that's the beauty of his suggestions. You can take them or leave them; fly smart (and more historically or with more 'realism') or not. You can choose to be transported in time when you click that "Combat Theater" button ... or not. You make the call.

Am I wrong?

Splash1

Grits · « **Reply #32 on:** August 01, 2004, 12:36:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dennis
I'm curious where folks got this idea that there is a "re-enactment camp" among CT fliers.

OK, I said that, and it was probably not the best way to phrase it.

Jasta · « **Reply #33 on:** August 01, 2004, 12:44:01 AM »

To me, the CT is great because its a different group of people.

I see people that are as interested in the strategy and tactics of the war as I am. People that understand how teamwork is supposed to work. People that understand how fun is had.

The coolest thing for me was a few nights ago when we were flying Spits and 109s... 3 or 4 of us Spitfires in a fairly close formation met with about 3 or 4 109s in equally close formation.

Check 6s, saves, explosions, sweet shots by the jerries. I think I can speak for all when I say we had a lot of fun. MA is great and all that, but when I want to feel like Im in a simulator instead of a game, I head over to the CT, and thats usually alot.

Arlo · « **Reply #34 on:** August 01, 2004, 08:17:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by simshell
whats funny is that what happen in WW2 everday RL pliots did HO* they did gangbang* they did pork* they did smack talk they did chute shooting *they did cherry picking* they did grab huge alt *

of course this is not WW2 this is a game o wait the CT is trying to semi RL

Don't have a cow because CT was never intended to protect you from the basic design of the game.

*And yes ... they did.

Oldman731 · « **Reply #35 on:** August 01, 2004, 11:41:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dennis
And that's the beauty of his suggestions. You can take them or leave them; fly smart (and more historically or with more 'realism') or not. You can choose to be transported in time when you click that "Combat Theater" button ... or not. You make the call.

I agree with this.

I suspect that making the CT more realistic will actually reduce our numbers, particularly if we further limit radar coverage. It's already difficult for newcomers to find where the fight is - reducing radar will make it more so, and (seems to me) won't add much to the realism factor.

Similarly, the MA seems to be full of people who want to emphasize the "stragegic" or "war winning" aspects of AH. I have to assume that they already think that the MA reflects this better than the CT. And, frankly, I would be disappointed to see the CT slide into a win-the-war focus. War-winning emphasizes the things I hate most: vulching, ganging, porking and running. Of course it's more realistic, but it's a lot less enjoyable.

My guess is that P6e identified the fundamental truth. Limited plane sets, axis-v.-allied setups, and early- or mid-war settings, will only ever appeal to a small subset of AH subscribers. That's us. We can, and should, work to increase CT numbers, because it often (not always) increases everyone's enjoyment, but we can't reasonably expect that this will ever be more than a boutique arena.

- oldman

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **Reply #36 on:** August 01, 2004, 01:56:27 PM »

Wish I had oldman's pinmanship!

storch · « **Reply #37 on:** August 01, 2004, 02:50:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Wish I had oldman's pinmanship!

Oh don't worry hawk your pinmanship is probably fine.

Slash27 · « **Reply #38 on:** August 01, 2004, 02:58:46 PM »

memnon · « **Reply #39 on:** August 01, 2004, 03:22:11 PM »

I agree i don't know how many times someone new has come into the game and asked where is the fight. Granted if they take the time to look they will find it but most of the time it's someone who is new to AH.

Quote

I suspect that making the CT more realistic will actually reduce our numbers, particularly if we further limit radar coverage. It's already difficult for newcomers to find where the fight is - reducing radar will make it more so, and (seems to me) won't add much to the realism factor.

Let me ask eveyone this if someone were to post that a mini mission was about to take place who would be interested in participating? I'm asking this because the idea of running missions in the CT has been kicked around by us in the 312th for awhile but the problem is we don't know if anyone would even want to participate. I was thinking that if anyone was interested that the mission could be announced on the country channel say twenty minutes in advance that way who ever wanted to join would have time to finish what they are doing. Then ten minutes before the mission would be announced over channel 1 so that the other side would have time to prepare. I know that there are not alot of us in the CT all the time but by doing this when some of the people from other arena's come in they might enjoy the CT more and decide to stay in here more plus it would help with adding to the realism more without changing things all that much.

Hey i'm just trying to throw out some idea's for bringing in new players and make the existing players enjoy themselves more.

Eagler · « **Reply #40 on:** August 01, 2004, 06:21:40 PM »

Howdy Beeger
wished I'd seen this post before running into you this morning
will try to act more like a wingy and less like a lone wolf in the future sir
glad to see you back

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **Reply #41 on:** August 01, 2004, 07:13:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
Oh don't worry hawk your pinmanship is probably fine.

I thought you might like that

TheBeeg · « **Reply #42 on:** August 01, 2004, 08:54:10 PM »

Let me say that in the spirit of flying realistically in order to enjoy the game I would participate in posted missions. Why? Because I've watched a lot of WW2 movies and they all show planned missions as an integral part of winning a war one battle at a time. Remember the big courtain hiding the mission map? The call to attention when the CO walks in and finally the revelation of what the plan is and what your specific part is to bring it about. That's what it's all about in my book. On the other hand few are the movies I've seen that portray a communiting train of single guys going back and forth a-killing and a-dying without any concentration of power or any other worthwhile military principle. Wait, yes I've seen a movie like that, think it was called 9,000,000 year B.C. with Rachel Welch LOL. Count me in, in either case.

TheBeeg

Quote

Originally posted by memnon
I agree i don't know how many times someone new has come into the game and asked where is the fight. Granted if they take the time to look they will find it but most of the time it's someone who is new to AH.

Let me ask eveyone this if someone were to post that a mini mission was about to take place who would be interested in participating? I'm asking this because the idea of running missions in the CT has been kicked around by us in the 312th for awhile but the problem is we don't know if anyone would even want to participate. I was thinking that if anyone was interested that the mission could be announced on the country channel say twenty minutes in advance that way who ever wanted to join would have time to finish what they are doing. Then ten minutes before the mission would be announced over channel 1 so that the other side would have time to prepare. I know that there are not alot of us in the CT all the time but by doing this when some of the people from other arena's come in they might enjoy the CT more and decide to stay in here more plus it would help with adding to the realism more without changing things all that much.

Hey i'm just trying to throw out some idea's for bringing in new players and make the existing players enjoy themselves more.

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **Reply #43 on:** August 02, 2004, 12:13:14 AM »

Beej,

VMF-312 and the 325th FG use to plan and anounce that we were going to fly a mission. These mission consisted of attacking a target. The target could be a bridge, a single building, or even a railroad track of importance. These targets are not always game start targets. We do NBOT furball during these missions. We fly as ordered by the CO or Mission CO. We would attack and RTB. If the mission was NOT to fight, we would not fight.

We did this for a while untill the axis squads made continuous rude remarks. The fun was over and that was the last of it. I know there are still a few squads that fly "missions" but are not anounced.
Anyway, we might just plan something for thursday night. This might be a good time to try it again. Hopfully attitudes will cgange or it will be our last.

Grits · « **Reply #44 on:** August 02, 2004, 12:56:50 AM »

Let me point out that sometimes the mission, planned ahead of time, was to fly to the enema base and furball. VF-17 and the VMF squads based in the lower Solomans in late '43 and early '44 did exactly that many times over Rabaul. Everyone that studies that part of the war knows the story of Boyington coming up with the idea of using buff frequencies and formations to trick the IJN fighters at Rabaul into engaging. The only goal was to engage and destroy enema fighters, not to bomb, not to strafe, not to intercept bombers, not to do recon. It was for all intents and purposes a big furball, exactly what happens most of the time in the CT.

I love planned missions, and I am the first one to join one of Stream's missions regardless what side I'm on because they are fun. I will never forget in the Hungary set I think late Feb, the 325th and 78th ran a NOE mission to hit a bridge with A20's. They used LA7's posing as buffs as a diversion force. Deej and I were the only ones to intercept them as everyone else was furballing. That was the single most tense and fun sortie I think I have yet flown in AH and I didnt even get a kill.

I think that furballing did happen, as a planned mission not by accident, and should not be dismissed as "unrealistic" so quickly.