Eny and A8

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Zazen13
It's ENY value was lowered to 5 the same as the 262,
Zazen

So one "earns" as many perkies shooting down an La7 as one does shooting down a 262?

[Edbert]

Originally posted by Tilt
So one "earns" as many perkies shooting down an La7 as one does shooting down a 262?

Close but backwards, one earns as few points killing with an La7 as one does killing with a 262.

Misfit, regarding the "aint broke" thing...I beleive as many others do that it wasn't broken as in completely wrong but id did need some tweaking.

[Zazen13]

CC

Originally posted by Edbert MOL
Close but backwards, one earns as few points killing with an La7 as one does killing with a 262.

Misfit, regarding the "aint broke" thing...I beleive as many others do that it wasn't broken as in completely wrong but id did need some tweaking.

Actually he is correct, here is the perk formula cut n' pasted from the help file....

"With the values listed above, if you are flying the P-51D (ENY value of 18) and you score a kill on a Panzer (ENY value of 15), you would receive (18/15) = 1.20 fighter perk points. "

So, in fact he was correct, we will receive exactly the same number of perks for killing an Lgay7 as we would for killing a 262. For example, say I am in Typhoon with an ENY value of 20 and kill an Lgay7 with an ENY value of 5...

I would get 20/5=4 fighter perks for that Lgay7.

Just for fun, let's now say I am in the newly adjusted P40B with an ENY value of 60 and kill an Lgay7 with its ENY value of 5.

I would get 60/5=12 fighter perks for that single Lgay7 kill! That's enough for a free C-Hog with ONE Lgay7 kill!

Factor these revised ENY values in with generally lower perk plane costs and well...Let's just say I'm going to get alot more trigger time in my Tempest!

LGay7 hunting season is officially OPEN!!!

I have always gone out of my way to kill Lgay7s just on principle, now, thanks to the re-balancing of the ENY value system I can continue to do so and be rewarded handsomely for my efforts, Thanks HTC!

Also, contrary to popular myth, the arena is just chock full of non-newbies who fly the Lgay7 religiously. Just check the statisitics of some of the Top 100 Fighter pilots last tour. A very healthy portion of them fly the majority of their fighter sorties in the Lgay7.


Zazen

[Tilt]

can see them queuing up on my tail now.................







............. nothing new there then

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by GODO
Really?

Don't worry, Mandoble.  Your amazing skill more than makes up for the glaring deficiencies in the 190 flight model.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Karnak]

Sample ENY Values:

La-7: 5
Me262A: 5
P-51D: 6
N1K2-J: 7
Spitfire Mk XIV: 7
Spitfire Mk IX: 8
F4U-1C: 10
P-38L: 15
Spitfire Mk Vb: 15
Fw190D-9: 18
Bf109G-10: 20
Typhoon Mk Ib: 20
Ki-61-I-Tei: 40
P-40B: 60


And it will make no difference at all.


As long as perk points are useless for anything over an F4U-1C and shy of an Me262 (and the occasional Me163) they will not be an incentive.

I've said it before and it remains true.  Being artificially gangbanged is not a reward.

Look at the F4U-1C.  It is controled by it's 12 point perk price, yet is still used because it doesn't come with a neon "Hey everybody, come kill me!!!" icon like the others do.

I simply do not understand why HiTech sees it as so important for perk planes to be hunted when most of them have very marginal performance advantages or only advantages as an overall package that are easily wiped away by simple numbers.  Too many perk planes are slower than common free aircraft to make them at all desirable to fly when coupled with the fact that you know enemy in the area will recklessly try to kill you.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Karnak
Sample ENY Values:

La-7: 5
Me262A: 5
P-51D: 6
N1K2-J: 7
Spitfire Mk XIV: 7
Spitfire Mk IX: 8
F4U-1C: 10
P-38L: 15
Spitfire Mk Vb: 15
Fw190D-9: 18
Bf109G-10: 20
Typhoon Mk Ib: 20
Ki-61-I-Tei: 40
P-40B: 60


And it will make no difference at all.


As long as perk points are useless for anything over an F4U-1C and shy of an Me262 (and the occasional Me163) they will not be an incentive.

I've said it before and it remains true.  Being artificially gangbanged is not a reward.

Look at the F4U-1C.  It is controled by it's 12 point perk price, yet is still used because it doesn't come with a neon "Hey everybody, come kill me!!!" icon like the others do.

I simply do not understand why HiTech sees it as so important for perk planes to be hunted when most of them have very marginal performance advantages or only advantages as an overall package that are easily wiped away by simple numbers.  Too many perk planes are slower than common free aircraft to make them at all desirable to fly when coupled with the fact that you know enemy in the area will recklessly try to kill you.

I kind of disagree, but we'll have to wait and see how things play out to determine if my rationale is correct. I disagree on the basis of economics, perk economics. With ENY values increased for most early/mid-war planes, decreased for late-war planes and perk plane costs decreased across the board except for the overly popular C-hog and 262 something interesting will likely happen.

What I think will happen is alot of people will fly the more mediocre perk planes such as the Tempest, F4u4, and Spit14. Due to the fact most of the late-war rides have ENY values at or close to perk planes they will be the targets of choice for perk planes and the average pilot as they are worth alot of perks per kill. Compound this with the increased reward for flying early/mid-war rides and you can see that a trend will be forming. You will see alot more early/mid-war rides, alot less late-war rides and alot more mediocre perk planes. I believe HTC is thinking along these lines as well.

The gang-bang the perk plane phenomena is true to a point. But, if your average 25 on 25 furball for a base now has 5 of these mediocre perk planes involved on each side the ability for anyone to give any one perk plane an inordinate amount of attention is decreased greatly. The gang-bang phenomena occurs primarily because the mediocre perk planes are a rare sight indeed, a novelty. Killing them is a matter of pride and a badge of honor. If, however, they are a 1 in 10 sighting rather than a 1 in 100 sighting and worth no more than an Lgay7, Niki, Spit9 or P51D per kill  the novelty of killing them will quickly wear off.

Zazen

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Don't worry, Mandoble.  Your amazing skill more than makes up for the glaring deficiencies in the 190 flight model.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Just by generalizing the ENY value modifications it appears as though more 'weight' was given to planes with better gun packages both in terms of lethality and ammo load. I think this is why the Fw190-A8 got gimped relative to comparable quality rides in all other respects.

Zazen

[Karnak]

Zazen,

You think by a reduction in the Spitfire Mk XIV's price from 60 to 45 is going to see a tenfold increase in use?


This is a fighter that despite being an expspensive perk plane managed a whopping 1.17 K/D ratio last tour.  The N1K2-J managed a 1.18 and the La-7 a 1.28, both despite being incredibly overused by average players.

The cost is irrelevant for nearly all of us and 15 points isn't going to make a difference in any case.  As it stands now I'll earn that for killing two La-7s.  But I have well over 1000 perk points despite how rarely I play.

The price doesn't matter.  The gangbang does.


In order for the system to work they either need to keep the perk tags and reduce the cost to about 5 points or get rid of the perk tags.  As it stands they are not a reward and are therefore useless as an incentive.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Karnak
Zazen,

You think by a reduction in the Spitfire Mk XIV's price from 60 to 45 is going to see a tenfold increase in use?





In order for the system to work they either need to keep the perk tags and reduce the cost to about 5 points or get rid of the perk tags.  As it stands they are not a reward and are therefore useless as an incentive.

I think all perk planes that saw a reduction in price will get more trigger time. I also think that for the most part, with the exception of those that rely on the "Big 4" crutch exclusively, there will be alot more perks floating around to be spent. Between the lower costs and the 'cheaper' perks, yes I believe the general use of perk planes will increase significantly. With their increased use, will come a decrease in their being given attention disproportionate to their quality, especially since a kill on any of the "Big 4" carries the same reward as a kill on any perk plane. In fact, for example, a kill on an Lgay7 (ENY 5) is now worth more than a kill on a Tempest (ENY 7), Spit14 (ENY 8) or F4U4 (ENY 8).

Zazen

[DrDea]

Originally posted by Jackal1
 The average La7 pilot thinks perks is a method by which to brew coffee.

  Ahh thats good stuff  

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Zazen13
I also think that for the most part, with the exception of those that rely on the "Big 4" crutch exclusively, there will be alot more perks floating around to be spent. Between the lower costs and the 'cheaper' perks, yes I believe the general use of perk planes will increase significantly.

I don't see that at all.  The people who fly the earlier was aircraft do so because they like the earlier war aircraft, not to earn perks, which as I mentioned, are not an incentive.

Frankly, I mainly use perks as instant feedback on how well I did in the last mission, weighted for aircraft types.  This despite the Spitfire Mk XIV being my favorite WWII fighter.


I rarely fly the Mk XIV because it isn't fun or enjoyable to be gangbanged while flying an aircraft that has no means of escape.  It isn't the fastest, it doesn't turn that well and it isn't the best climber.

In a one-on-one it almost certainly holds the advantage over it's opponent in at least one of those categories.  In a five-on-one it likely holds none of them.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Karnak
I don't see that at all.  The people who fly the earlier was aircraft do so because they like the earlier war aircraft, not to earn perks, which as I mentioned, are not an incentive.

Frankly, I mainly use perks as instant feedback on how well I did in the last mission, weighted for aircraft types.  This despite the Spitfire Mk XIV being my favorite WWII fighter.


I rarely fly the Mk XIV because it isn't fun or enjoyable to be gangbanged while flying an aircraft that has no means of escape.  It isn't the fastest, it doesn't turn that well and it isn't the best climber.

In a one-on-one it almost certainly holds the advantage over it's opponent in at least one of those categories.  In a five-on-one it likely holds none of them.

I think you are in error, I know many, many, many people who use the Hurricane IIc or the F4u-1 ALOT for the sole purpose of accumulating perk points for jets. Look at the score boards of alot of the 'Jet Jockey's", almost invariably they will fly the Jet and one, or a couple, early war planes with high ENY values and very little else. Try not to superimpose what 'you' tend do with what 'most' people tend to do. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean it isn't a prevalent trend in the MA.


Zazen

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Zazen13
I think you are in error, I know many, many, many people who use the Hurricane IIc or the F4u-1 ALOT for the sole purpose of accumulating perk points for jets. Look at the score boards of alot of the 'Jet Jockey's", almost invariably they will fly the Jet and one, or a couple, early war planes with high ENY values and very little else. Try not to superimpose what 'you' tend do with what 'most' people tend to do. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean it isn't a prevalent trend in the MA.

I do see that too, but I see no reason to conclude that because people are willing to put up with crappy rides for the supremely powerful Me262 that brings overwhelming advantages to the table that people are going to jump for joy because the Spit XIV has had a 25% reduction in cost.

It just isn't going to happen as the two perk planes are not remotely comparable.

Both aircraft draw a gangbang, but for the 262 that is simply a concentration of targets, for the Spitfire Mk XIV it is death.  A 15 point change will not make a difference.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Karnak
A 15 point change will not make a difference.

I haven't done the calculations but if you look at the revised ENY values, what we have is perk point INFLATION. In that I mean, the value of a perk point today is ALOT less than it was before the changes. The Spit14 is down to 45 perks from 60 in terms of face value but, if you factor in the perk point inflation generated by higher overall average ENY ratings across the board that Spit14 compared to pre-change costs is probably only 25 or 30 perks. The same is true for the other 'mediocre' perk planes.

Zazen