Glad we have our priorities straight!

[TheDudeDVant]

Originally posted by midnight Target
ummm, Sorry there weren't more catholic school girls?

Did they smack your hand with a splintered ruler when you asked for more school girls?

[Torque]

I worked for the TSB (Toronto School Board) for about five years,  Admins, teachers, maintenance crews their only concern is carving up that year's gravy train rather than the children's education or welfare.

The most pathetic group of people i have worked with in my life.

I had to get out.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Torque
I worked for the TSB (Toronto School Board) for about five years,  Admins, teachers, maintenance crews their only concern is carving up that year's gravy train rather than the children's education or welfare.

The most pathetic group of people i have worked with in my life.

I had to get out.

that's happening all over America as well.  It's pretty sad when more money is spent on "overhead" than it is on Education.

[Westy]

" "non-public" schools generally produce better students at nearly half the costs."

 It's not all about money. Although stupid people typically don't make enough $$$ to send thier kids to private school.  
 Non public schools will kick your kids bellybutton out on the sidewalk if they are an underperformer or "problem" child. And that is if they even accepted them into thier system to begin with.

 In other words the end product of private schooling has more self discipline because they went in with, or maintained more, than thier public school counterpart

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

I went to a Catholic H.S. and a Public H.S. - the former in VA, the latter in MD.

The public H.S. was WAY better in every respect than the Catholic H.S. There were a _FEW_ good teachers there, the rest - bad.

The public H.S. had way more good teachers that actually cared.
-SW

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I went to a Catholic H.S. and a Public H.S. - the former in VA, the latter in MD.

The public H.S. was WAY better in every respect than the Catholic H.S. There were a _FEW_ good teachers there, the rest - bad.

The public H.S. had way more good teachers that actually cared.
-SW

Yup and we all know how you turned out!






























JK he he he

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by Simaril
1) Is credentialling a requirement for being a good teacher? It seems to me that with apparent failure of national educational system, indoctrination in the system's "right" way to do things may be a mixed blessing at best.

Of course not, but it's handy for math teachers to know something about mathematics.

2) I find it very hard to believe that "in 30 years of teaching" the private school students were "always" behind, "even the bright ones." Being able to make such a statement costs you a few credibility points,

Nonetheless, it was true.  The best student I ever had came from a non-catholic religious school.  He was successful, but his first year was painful.

Oh, and by the way, I am a graduate of a private religious non-catholic school that had some "unaccredited" teachers. I was admitted to a highly competitive 6 year combined undergraduate/medical school program right out of high school. I was selected editor of the Med School paper while pursuing studies, and I was Chief Resident in my postgraduate program. I'm now Board Certified in three (3) medical specialties, serve as physician advisor to the Utilization Review department, and I'm involved in training programs for residents and medical students. My high school taught me very well, and I was in no way "behind" even though I wasn't "blessed" with a public school education.
students.

It's fair to assume hubris was part of your private school education.

3) And you still haven't addressed the cost per student issue. Blaming it on hiring cheap teachers begs the question, since measured outcomes of . Large surveys have repeatedly shown that the parochial system, even with its "unaccredited" teachers and much poorer compensation, obtains similar and often improved objective outcomes.

I never taught in the public school system.  My entire professional life was spent at the collegiate level.  I know relatively little about the merits of public versus private.  However, I can faithfully report my experience with private school students, and it was dismal.

4) My brother in law burned out as a (certified) public school teacher not because of compensation, but because the bureaucracy above him took ill advised positions, failed to respond to real conditions, and generally would not support his efforts to improve his school and his students. He could not maintain discipline in his classroom because he had no support from his principle. Bureaucracy, not certification, is the major issue - adn buraeucracy costs lots of (wasted) money.

Yes, I've read as much.

curly

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Wut? Aye lernt reel gud.
-SSSUU

[Simaril]

Originally posted by AKcurly


It's fair to assume hubris was part of your private school education.


curly

Ouch.

In fairness, I only listed that stuff as a counterpoint to your assertion that private school students are less prepared. Outside of the office, I prefer going by my first name (sans title) and my checks, envelopes, etc dont even have the "Dr." stuff on them.

I'm also a bit sensitive about public school educational arrogance because we homeschool our kids. National surveys of homeschooled kids have found that their mean performance is 20-30% higher than public school kids, even if the teaching parent only has a HS diploma, at an average cost of $400-500 annually. BTW, my kids are in 7th and 11th grade, doing great socially, and excel academically (90-99%ile) as measured by national standardized tests. Neither my wife (who does most of the teaching) nor I have education degrees.

Good education is not about money -- its about home and learning cultures that provide challenge and show clear consequences for choices made.








PS -- that proxy kill you got on me yesterday wasnt a TOTAL dweeb auger -- I was in Yak for first time in 3 tours, and misjudged the compression threshold.

[narsus]

The Public Schools are getting a considerable portion of cash from the federal government and just got a huge increase over the last couple years.

Education spending surged by 78 percent, from $34 billion to $58 billion. Nearly all of this growth took place between 2001 and 2003, as the No Child Left Behind Act was being implemented. Most of the new spending was for aid to K-12 schools (in-cluding special education funding), which jumped from $19 billion to $32 billion. An $8 billion hike in college student financial aid dominated the rest of the spending increase.

Now seeing these figures...the state level and local level system are not spending the money correctly. School system often are just huge bloated mounds with tons of red tape. Take it from me been in the system before and almost all my friends are teachers or principles as well.

Throwing money at a system isn't always the solution...parents have to step up and take part in their childrens future and make alot of noise. Hell get th epress involved get attention and stay on it. Things will change it would just take time.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
That's pretty sad considering only 19% of the education money givin to states is actually getting to the schools.

Once again, IMO this is a state issue and the Feds should stay out of it.

[JBA]

Originally posted by AKcurly
Costs on a per student expenditure?  Sure, private schools frequently hire teachers w/o the proper credentials.  

Good education requires a government smart enough to provide a decent facility; .teachers who possess adequate credentials parents who care; and the willingness to interact with the family.

curly

Here in Mass. The superintended of the school system in Lynn failed the required test for graduation taken by all HS seniors.

[Westy]

"superintended of the school system in Lynn failed the required test.."

  That does not surprise me and IMO it is completely irrelevant. It's been decades since the superintendant attended high school while on the other hand the Lynn high school kids had literally just studied the material being tested and SHOULD know it.

[anonymous]

Originally posted by AKcurly
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040805/ap_on_re_us/school_construction

BALTIMORE - Kojo McCallum's fourth-grade classroom has been infested by mice and the window panes have deteriorated to a cloudy, opaque tint.

Outside the Charles Carroll Barrister Elementary School in Baltimore, graffiti colors the walls and drug needles have popped up on the grounds.

"Not only is it old and decrepit, it's the filthiest environment I've ever worked in in my life," McCallum said. "And kids have to learn there."

It would cost $3.85 billion to bring every Maryland school up to minimum health and safety standards, according to a February report from a task force led by State Treasurer Nancy K. Kopp.
---------------

Let's see, 3.85 days of hunting for nonexistent WMDs equals bringing every Maryland school up to minimum health & safety standards.  Why I'll bet  200 days of hunting nonexistent WMDs would take care of the entire national public school system.  Imagine that!

curly

alright youre really onto something here! theres mismanagement and corruption in departments of education so LETS CUT THE MILITARY BUDGET. you are a loyal extremist democrat alright. pass on your expert advice to bill after you get up and he zips his fly.

[DmdBT]

Do NOT get me started on the Baltimore school fiasco. Did you know the school system in Baltimore had to get bailed out this year to the tune of nearly 50 million dollars? Thats right, 50 million tax-payer dollars just upped and disappeared and the school board has absolutely NO IDEA where the money went.

Recently it came to light that one of the high schools graduated/advanced nearly 1/3 of its student body that according to the records should not have been promoted! These kids are now in a special "20 day intensive course" to get them up to the standards so they can still stay with their classmates in the next grade or have their diplomas certified. The principal gets on tv and screams its a racial thing (God forbid we actually expect blacks to LEARN), the students get on tv and scream making them attend this class is unfair and its not their fault (gee handsomehunk, who's fault is it then that YOU failed?), and the school superintendent and mayor get on tv and scream that they need more money.

Oh, our mayor O'Malley, the wonderful POS that said in a speech when Kerry came to town begging for money that he fears our President more that Al Quaida. Isn't that a wonderful statement?

Wait, there is more! Some city schools let their students take the aptitude tests several times until they achieved sufficient scores to show progress. Now that's what I call preparing our children for the real world. Oh well, SOMEONE has to work the fast food restaurants.

If I didn't live so damn close I'd wish the terrorists would nuke that cesspool. It's a black-hole for taxpayer money from all across the state.