Slot `43 recommendation

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

Soulyss

Remove fleet maned ack & increase, greatly, fleet and ack hardness. Dont add the -1D or the N1K2J, we see the N1K2J too much as it is. The F4U is not a furballing fighter.
Increase troops to 25.
Also, last night CV3 got captured. Someone told me you had it set to were fleets werent suppose to be captured.

[Grits]

Hawk, that sounds about right to me too. The only think I might disagree with is fleet hardness being upped too much, there was panic when enemy bombers were sighted in RL, we shouldnt up fleet hardness or ack lethality so much that they are not afraid of buffs.

[Soulyss]

I haven't been able to figure out what's happening but a couple fleets switch sides when sunk.. I tried resetting and making sure the ports were assigned right but that didn't do so I'm not sure what's going on.   Untill I figure out what's going on I'll just have to keep an eye on things and give cv's back.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

Originally posted by Grits
Hawk, that sounds about right to me too. The only think I might disagree with is fleet hardness being upped too much, there was panic when enemy bombers were sighted in RL, we shouldnt up fleet hardness or ack lethality so much that they are not afraid of buffs.

Kinda like Zeros HOing F6Fs and Corsairs? I have never seen Zero pilots so not afraid of allied aircraft. Too bad Zero pilots werent so brave in WWII. They could have won the air battles.
Zero pilots paniced when they saw F4Us and P-38s as well as F6Fs. My bigest beaf is the non self sealing fuel tanks not exploding when they get hit:(

[Grits]

The A6M5b had self-sealing tanks and pilot armor, but you make a good point. I am always amazed at how tough the Zeke's are, however you cant make us in a game in 2004 act like the pilots in WWII, who's real life was on the line, its just not going to happen. You are just going to have to live with unrealistic tactics and move on, its unavoidable and to dwell on it will only make you more angry.

What we can do is change arena settings so that larger unrealistic things, like beaching fleets (how close to land do you think Mitcher would have let his CV's get?) is not rewarded. For that reason I say, remove the gunners, and leave the CV hardness and ack lethality the same. That way, if you want your CV to live you have to have effective fighter cover, and it cant get too close to any enemy base. Do that and you wont need to up capture to more than 10 because you would have to have a VERY well organized effort to take a base since you would have to actually defend the CV with planes, not just leave it to the gunners.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

Originally posted by Grits
The A6M5b had self-sealing tanks and pilot armor, but you make a good point. I am always amazed at how tough the Zeke's are, however you cant make us in a game in 2004 act like the pilots in WWII, who's real life was on the line, its just not going to happen. You are just going to have to live with unrealistic tactics and move on, its unavoidable and to dwell on it will only make you more angry.

What we can do is change arena settings so that larger unrealistic things, like beaching fleets (how close to land do you think Mitcher would have let his CV's get?) is not rewarded. For that reason I say, remove the gunners, and leave the CV hardness and ack lethality the same. That way, if you want your CV to live you have to have effective fighter cover, and it cant get too close to any enemy base. Do that and you wont need to up capture to more than 10 because you would have to have a VERY well organized effort to take a base since you would have to actually defend the CV with planes, not just leave it to the gunners.

Grits you missed the point. You stated that ..there was panic when enemy bombers were sighted in RL, we shouldnt up fleet hardness or ack lethality so much that they are not afraid of buffs.[/i] But then you say "you cant make us in a game in 2004 act like the pilots in WWII"[/b] ..then further say ...You are just going to have to live with unrealistic tactics and move on... So how can you tell us we need to not increase act hardness and then tell me to deal with unrealistic tactics?

If the Zero pilots are not afraid of allied aircraft, why should the CVs be afraid of the bombers? You basicly stated that the CVs should fear bombers but the Zeros should not (fear the much superior allied fighters) be flown as they were in WWII. Kind of a double standard ay?

[J_A_B]

"In late 1944 a detailed test was run between an F4U-1D and a captured a6m2"

--From the report Arlo quoted


"In Ace's High, the F4U-1, 1D and 1C can't outclimb any of the IJ planeset. "

"In AH and AHII, from takeoff to alt, both the A6M2 and A6M5 have a distinct advantage over the F4U-1, -1D and -1C."

--Arlo


Well the report was talking about A6M2 and F4U-1D, so lets check those out in AH:

In Aces High, max climbrate of the F4U-1D and A6M2 is about the same up to about 10K, except the -1D has a large advantage under 2000 feet due to neutral blower setting which was apparently not used in the comparison Arlo quoted.

Asolute best climbrate for the A6M2 is about 2800 FPM.  F4U-1D reaches 3375 FPM.

Sure enough, in AH at 18,000 feet, the F4U-1D has about a 750 FPM advantage over the A6M2.


The F4U-1D also handily outclimbs the Ki-61 at many altitudes.  The Ki-61 holds a climrate advantage at medium altitudes; the F4U-1D is better on the deck and at high altitude.  The F4U-1D outclimbs the N1K2 at high altitude as well.  The A6M5 is the only Japanese fighter in AH which maintains climbrate parity with the F4U-1D at all altitudes.

The F4U-1 with the "toothpick" propeller was never known for stellar low-speed climbing.


J_A_B

[Arlo]

A6M2 was a typo. The captured craft was an A6M5. Flown the F4Us and both Zekes extensively in AH and AHII. The A6M2 maintains with and the A6M5 outclimbs the F4U-1 (the F4U-1D was an f4U-1A with pylons added and wingtanks taken out).

Offline comparisons

Fuelburn rate 1.8 - Slot Map - Henderson field - takeoff NE - autoclimb

F4U-1: 1/2 fuel : wep on takeoff

2k roc 3
5k 2:06
10k 3:53
13k roc 2.75
13.45k wep runs out
15k 5:52 roc 2.25
17.5k roc 2
20k 8:26 wep re-engaged
23.2k roc 1.75 wep runs out
24.75k roc 1.5
25k 11:16 wep re-engaged
25.9k wep runs out
27k wep re-engaged
27.6k roc 1.25 wep runs out
30k 15:22
-----------------------------------------------------------

A6M5: 1/2 fuel

5k 1:41
8.5k roc 3.5
10k 3:09
11k roc 3.25
15k 4:48
16.3k roc 3
18.2k roc 2.75
20k 6:39
20.2k 2oc 2.5
22k roc 2.25
23.6k roc 2
25k 9:04
25.5k roc 1.75
27k roc 1.5
28.7k roc 1.25
30k 12:47
-----------------------------------------------------------

A6M2: 1/2 fuel

5k 2:03
8k roc 2.75
10k 3:56
15k 5:55
15.7k roc 2.5
18k roc 2.25
20k 8:23 roc 2
22k roc 1.75
24k roc 1.5
25k 11:20
26.3k roc 1.25
28.3k roc 1
30k 16:11
-----------------------------------------------------------

Which synchs up with my online experiences.

[Grits]

Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Grits you missed the point.

No, with due respect Hawk, you missed the point. Pilot tactics are an individual thing, about which each one of us as persons living in 2004, have differing views as to what is fun. I dont fly like you, or Storch, or Arlo, or Oldman, or anybody else, much less a real pilot. We are not all trying to stay alive, because we dont really die, we can do things that a real WWII pilot would never have done. You choose to fly as though you life depends on it, and I respect that because not many do, but you can not force others to do the same thing. Nothing can be done to change that, by you or me or anyone else, its a result of this being a GAME.

CV and Ack hardness are arena settings which can be changed to simulate WWII and cause us to react as pilots then would. Individual pilot tactics are not arena settings, and can not regulated.

YOU can not make ME fear the F4U when I am in a Zeke, because I do no fear it and there is nothing you can do to make me fear it. Most (not all) F4U's are poorly flown and with such timidity that they are not a real threat unless they are 3 to 1 because of lack of aggressiveness. Ask Storch if I know how to fly the F4U agressively.

You can however, with proper arena settings, make me fear 2-3 TBM's/SBD's heading unopposed to my CV, knowing that there are not 4-6 manned acks waiting to knock them down. This will cause a person in 2004 to react as a pilot in WWII would knowing if they dont intercept, the CV will be doomed as it would have been then.

As a side note, your hero Chris Magee was well known for attacking any odds, even when lower and far outnumbered so dont act like all "real" pilots flew like you do.

[storch]

Originally posted by Grits
No, with due respect Hawk, you missed the point. Pilot tactics are an individual thing, about which each one of us as persons living in 2004, have differing views as to what is fun. I dont fly like you, or Storch, or Arlo, or Oldman, or anybody else, much less a real pilot. We are not all trying to stay alive, because we dont really die, we can do things that a real WWII pilot would never have done. You choose to fly as though you life depends on it, and I respect that because not many do, but you can not force others to do the same thing. Nothing can be done to change that, by you or me or anyone else, its a result of this being a GAME.

CV and Ack hardness are arena settings which can be changed to simulate WWII and cause us to react as pilots then would. Individual pilot tactics are not arena settings, and can not regulated.

YOU can not make ME fear the F4U when I am in a Zeke, because I do no fear it and there is nothing you can do to make me fear it. Most (not all) F4U's are poorly flown and with such timidity that they are not a real threat unless they are 3 to 1 because of lack of aggressiveness. Ask Storch if I know how to fly the F4U agressively.

You can however, with proper arena settings, make me fear 2-3 TBM's/SBD's heading unopposed to my CV, knowing that there are not 4-6 manned acks waiting to knock them down. This will cause a person in 2004 to react as a pilot in WWII would knowing if they dont intercept, the CV will be doomed as it would have been then.

As a side note, your hero Chris Magee was well known for attacking any odds, even when lower and far outnumbered so dont act like all "real" pilots flew like you do.

Why bring me into this?  Oh BTW I liked your panties last night grits, the pink ones with the white hearts.  I hope you didn't soil them fearing my zeke of death!

[J_A_B]

"(the F4U-1D was an f4U-1A with pylons added and wingtanks taken out). "

As modeled in AH, they also appear to have a different propeller since the -1D manages to outclimb the -1 at any altitude by a rather signifigant margin.

That or the -1 doesn't have water injection and thus 200 less HP.  

Regardless the cause, the -1 obviously has a worse climbrate than the -1D and while most the Japanese fighters will outclimb the -1 at most altitudes, the -1D is much more able to hold its own.  


J_A_B

[Karnak]

Arlo,

Was that the A6M5 that wasn't working properly and was used in the tests posted a bit ago by F4UDOA?

[Arlo]

It's AHII's A6M5. Versus the F4U-1, it outclimbs it as well as it did in AH1.

[Karnak]

No, I mean the A6M5 that the F4U was tested against in reality.  Is that the one that the F4U outclimbed?

[Arlo]

Offline comparisons

Fuelburn rate 1.8 - Slot Map - Henderson field - takeoff NE - autoclimb

F4U-1D: 3/4 fuel (equivalent fuel load to F4U-1 @ 1/2): wep on takeoff

2k roc 3.1
5k 1:59
10k 3:38
10.5k 5/8 tank remaining
15k 5:21 roc 2.75
15.3k wep runs out roc 2.4
17k roc 2.25
20k 7:40 wep re-engaged roc climbs 2.1 to 2.35
22k 1/2 tank remaining
22.5k wep runs out roc 1.9
24k roc 1.75
25k 10:13 wep re-engaged roc climbs 1.7 to 1.75
26.25k wep runs out roc 1.5
28.5k wep re-engaged roc climbs 1.35 to 1.4
29.2k 3/8 tank remaining
29.6k wep runs out roc 1.25
30k 13:42
-----------------------------------------------------------

A6M5: 1/2 fuel

5k 1:41
8.5k roc 3.5
10k 3:09
11k roc 3.25
15k 4:48
16.3k roc 3
18.2k roc 2.75
20k 6:39
20.2k roc 2.5
22k roc 2.25
23.6k roc 2
25k 9:04
25.5k roc 1.75
27k roc 1.5
28.7k roc 1.25
30k 12:47
-----------------------------------------------------------