Slot `43 recommendation

[storch]

Originally posted by Soulyss
THe Me110 as a sub was mentioned to me, I decided against it for a couple of reasons.

Firstly  I'll admit that, I don't know much about the ki-45 and I lacked the time to do the research to see if it were even a viable substitute.

Secondly I have a distaste for subsituting aircraft, especially fighters.  To me it kills the immersion, if we somehow had a IJN skin for the 110 I'd give it more serious consideration.

I dunno... I've been told I'm inflexible.  

Who??? YOU???? Mr. #8 re-bar????? NAAAAAAAAAAAAAH couldn't be.

Ki-45 had one 20mm Ho-5 and four  7.7 mg  2 1300 hp engines IIRC

[Karnak]

Ki-45-I-Hei Toryu "Nick":

Crew: Two
Engines: Two 1,080hp Mitsubishi Ha-102 engines
Operational Weight: 12,125lbs
Maximum Speed: 336mph
Climb Rate: Climb to 16,405 ft in 7 min 0 sec
Armament: One 37mm Ho-203 fixed forward-firing in the underside of the forward fuselage; two 20mm Ho-5 fixed obliquely up- and forward-firing in the central fuselage (similar to German Shräge musik;  7.7mm Type 98 trainable rearward-firing in the rear cockpit
Ordinace: two 250kg bombs
Service: August 1942 - 1945
Production: 1,675 total, 477 of this version

[Grits]

Hmmm, that sounds like the 110C would be the better match performance and gun wise, but I dont think that is much help against F6F's and F4U's.

[Arlo]

110c are teh ubar!

[storch]

Kawasaki Ki-45 KAIa
Engines two Nakajima Ha-25 1050 hp. each
Max speed 345mph at 23,000 ft.
Ceiling 35,000 ft.
Range 1400 miles
Armament one Ho-5 20mm four 7.7 type 98 mg.  two were the rear gunner's
Ord. 500kg bombs

Remarkably close to the 110c.  It's your arena so you get to do what you want.  But it seems shortsighted to exclude this logical substitution given that the Ki-45 was probably a better performer than the 110 and HTC will probably not model anymore Japanese aircraft in the foreseeable future.

If I could learn to skin aircraft I would gladly do so.  I am however virtually useless in all things 'putery.

[Grits]

The Ki45 looks to be quite a bit faster than the 110C, but as you said otherwise looks very close. Would anybody fly it? I mean that seriously, why would anyone fly it over the Zeke or Ki61? I'm all for substitutions, but I dont really see that the 110C would really add anything.

[storch]

Originally posted by Grits
The Ki45 looks to be quite a bit faster than the 110C, but as you said otherwise looks very close. Would anybody fly it? I mean that seriously, why would anyone fly it over the Zeke or Ki61? I'm all for substitutions, but I dont really see that the 110C would really add anything.

I'd fly it to chase down the runners. namely anyone in a blue plane with very few exceptions.  The only decent fights I've had this week is when the guys from the MA show up.  You don't have to spend 45 minutes chasing them guys around.  The 110 might be able to catch the F6F.  It will catch the P40 and the F4F.  Flown properly it will turn with anything the allies have.

If the Japanese plane set is deficient then we could  take sensible steps to make the game enjoyable.  Basically this wasn't a 1943 set up any way as there were no 1943 Japanese planes there.  The allies only had the P40 anf the F4F so I don't buy the reason put forth by some as to why this or that model was excluded.

Actually you might have tossed in the N1K2 it was as much a 1943 bird as the F6F-5 and the TBM-3.  In AH the F4U 1 and the 1A don't differ greatly at all.

[Squire]

Myself,  I find the Ki-61 to be a much better fighter than the A6M5. The only thing the Zero does better is climb. Zero sucks at high speed, its slower, it dives poorly, and its armament is no better. The Ki-61 has few real flaws, except its slower than an F4U-1. In real life, serviceability was its main drawback, something not modelled in AH.

As for the F6F-3, air to air, it is no different (that you would notice), than an F6F-5. As for the Ki-61 we have in AH2 being slower than its 1943 counterpart, the difference might be a whopping 5-8 mph. I have seen no data that shows any appreciable speed difference in the Ki-61 models, 360-368mph is the big spread. Again, I would say the difference is negligable.

The Ki-45 would be a great addition as a bomber killer, and its a twin engined type, so that adds something to the IJ set.

Just my take on some of the comments.

[Grits]

Speeds on the deck with WEP:

F6F 330
Ki61 313
110C 300

The 110C is 13 mph slower at sea level than the Ki61thats the only reason I asked. I agree that the models currently available to us requires us to make compromises, I guess I just dont think from its performance the 110C is worth adding, but I am in no way against it either.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

So why exactly do you want the Bf110?
Cannons?
Maneuverability?
Speed?

[storch]

Test I conducted off line all aircraft 75% fuel and full power no WEP.

110C4b  
5000 ft. 302 mph
8500 ft. 311 mph
10,000 ft. 315 mph
15,000 ft. 329 mph

Ki-61 TAI
5000 ft. 324 mph
8500 ft. 337 mph
10,000 ft. 344 mph
15,000 ft. 363 mph

N1K2-J  
5000 ft 335 mph
8500 ft. 350 mph
10,000 ft. 357 mph
15,000 ft. 350 mph

The Ki-61 was also superior in the Dive to the 110 and the N1K2 however the 110 should still be included because it adds the missing element of a more stable jabo platform and it seems to out accellerates the Ki-61 and the N1K2.   I'll dig up my stop watch and perform the accelleration tests over the weekend.

[Edbert]

Originally posted by Arlo
I had three occasions where there were three USN planes against my lone Zeke - me on the deck, they booming and zooming (first time 2 F4Us and a Hellcat, second 2 Hellcats and an F4U, third three Hellcats). First time they managed to empty their ammo and score a couple of fuel hits while I downed one of the F4Us and RTB'd. Second, I got an F4U again, third, they got me but at the cost of two of them.

Currently I'm 23 and 10 in the Zeke.

11 kills of the F6F-5 and 7 kills of the F4U. 2 F4F-4s. 1 TBM. 1P-40E. 2 LVTA2s.

Of course ... all 10 deaths were from F6F-5s.

The A6M5 is fine. You just have to let them outnumber you so they'll engage.

Well Arlo, after last nights spanking I'll give you credit. You are clearly able to do things with the Zeke that I cannot. You are a sniper when it comes to the HO and also have figured out how to make the zeke faster than a low fuel and WEPing Hellcat. I was doing ~350 and you were gaining on me like you had a reskinned La7. The only time I got you was when you were running back to the fleet from the GB and I managed to get into your blindspot.

VERY well flown sir !

[Edbert]

Karnak, correct, I did mean the Tony not the Frank. Wasn't the Tony a product of cooperation with Willy Messerschmidt? Much of the airframe was based on the 109 according to my admittetdly failing memory.

If anyone doubts the abilities of the 110c check out the stats from the current BoB. The ZGs have the highest K/D in the game for both frames so far, and that is against far more nimble opponents than Hellcats.

[Soulyss]

Who??? YOU???? Mr. #8 re-bar????? NAAAAAAAAAAAAAH couldn't be.

ROFL


touche.  

[Grits]

Originally posted by Edbert MOL
If anyone doubts the abilities of the 110c check out the stats from the current BoB. The ZGs have the highest K/D in the game for both frames so far, and that is against far more nimble opponents than Hellcats.

And far slower opponents than the Hellcat. I know the capabilities of the 110c, that is all I fly on the Axis side when we do '40 BoB sets. Its in between the A6M5 and Ki61 speed wise, only equals the Ki61 in Jabo load, and has weaker guns (remember, its 20mm's are MG/FF's not MG121's) than even the A6M5.

Again, I'm not against adding it as a sub for the Ki45, but I do see that it adds anything that the other two Japanese planes dont do better. Performance wise, the Ki45 was faster than even the 110G-2, but there is no way we can add the G-2  because of the gigantic difference in gun package.