New idea what do you ladies and gentlemen think.

[kevykev56]

Originally posted by HiTech

how come "Insert fav plane here" is limited and not the "Insert fav dweeb complaint plane here" is not.

Answer: Because that is the planeset that "I HiTech" feel is appropriate. Now shutup and Color!


I also do not feel that limiting a customers flying time is acceptable. What kind of havoc would this create if a mission is upping. the first 10 planes up but then the other 10 dont get off the ground, mission is a bust for all 20 players.

However limiting planesets could be fun for all. The lower number sides have an equalizing effect. And maybe some of the guys who are new and prefer to fly these late war uber planes will jump ship and fly there favorite ride in another country. This would also allow squads to stay together. A better idea IMHO.

RHIN0

[J_A_B]

The proposed system seems to penalize people who fly more sortes per hour while rewarding timid behavior.

The people who "fly to live" and use the re-arm pad to get those massive kill streaks would hardly be affected.

On the other hand, those players who fly a lot of sortes in a short time could potentially see a massive impact on how often they could fly.  People who don't want to switch countries due to squad affiliation would probably have to log off.

Even worse, it would unfairly penalize an entire country in those cases where the two smaller countries ignore each other and attack the larger country (this happens).  

I don't like it.

Encouraging people to log off, to "fix" a different problem which causes people to log off, isn't really fixing anything.



HOWEVER:

The basic idea--in a revised form--has potential.  Rather than ARENA-WIDE, perhaps the system should be programed to monitor local numbers, eg. if a fight in one particular part of the arena gets overly imbalanced, the take-off limiter kicks in for the local airfields ONLY.  This way pilots would still be free to take off elsewhere.  

This could limit numbers and might actually preserve fights that would otherwise be ended due to one side having an overwhelming numerical advantage.   While it would still penalize the people who have more flights per hour, at least it wouldn't be so bad as what HiTech initially proposed.

The system also has to have some delay in initiating the "Death timeout" in order to allow fights to "grow" properly.  

In addition to all this, the Clipboad would have to have some kind of tool showing the status of the local airfields so that pilots could see at a glance which fields have "limited takeoff", and so they could minitor how long during an imbalanced fight they have before the "limiter" takes effect.  This to prevent people in a furball from being caught by it unaware.

I would also go so far as to make Sector Counters undestroyable to better monitor local conditions; only positional radar should be able to be destroyed.


J_A_B

[Grimm]

I dont believe I like the concept.  

Hitech,  Consider this.....

Perhaps on a hypothetical night
100 Bishops
100 Knights
125 Rooks

75 Bishops fighting 65 Rooks
75 Knights fighting  60 Rooks
25 Bishops fighting 25 Knights

So the Rooks could in this situation have greater resorces,  yet would be out numbered on each front.   In addition they would have a penalty for feilding the largest numbers.

Your proposal doesnt seem to be a help in the above situation and its not really far fetched for that situation to happen.


I would have to place myself as someone that would prefer a positive reward system,  rather than a penalty system as you propose.

[Grimm]

If this would be implemented,  Perhaps it sould be known as the "Rook Rule"  

[J_A_B]

The major problem with the "plane limiting" is that so many planes share ICONS that the side with less numbers wouldn't even be able to tell that the system is in effect.    

Change the ICON system and maybe it could work.  The enemy needs to be able to directly SEE any system in action.

That comming from somebody who always flies a plane that would surely be affected y that system....it wouldn't always beperked, only to one country with too many people so it'd still be freely available if I had no perk points.  I'd just have to switch countries for a bit.....I could probably live with that.  Doesn't mean I'd like it though



Personally I question if anything "needs" to be done at all--but if something WILL be done, then I'd hope it's something which doesn't ruin the fun of the game.



J_A_B

[X2Lee]

Originally posted by Ohio330
Well, you wanted the truth...  I don't like the idea.
I think there is no "incentive" other than negative incentive
for people to change sides.  Try radically reducing the perk
requirements for planes in the lesser sides.

   Oh, and I also think your idea is going to be really messing
organized squad ops.  We would never know what side our
squaddies are on.

perks are for jerks  ;->   lots of foklks give a ratsbutt about perks.

the only time I ever use them is when we are SO outnumbered
that u have to fly a jet just to play the game,(rare occasions)

I think Hitechs Idea is brilliant  (yankee must have thought it up)

[Hap]

To all!!  Sorry I've not been in the air for the past few months.  Certainly have missed many.  I'm heartened to see, so far, this discussion being carried out with such a reasonable tone.  Makes things so much easier and more enjoyable.

When I began AH after AW folded, I have forgotten the month and year, we Bishops enjoyed, flaunted, and reveled in a large numerical advantage as I recall (or at least as a newbie I enjoyed, flaunted, reveled etc . . .).  For sometime it continued. (Apologies ahead of time if my recollections are wrong.)  It was a blast winning resets.  When I was last flying towards mid-March, blowing through another country wasn't as fun as it used to be (don't recollect too many times Bish achieved that during the 1st quarter of this year though), but winning a "hard won" reset was very satisfying and fun.

I state the above only to highlight that what I enjoyed most about AH changed over time as I gained a little facility as a pilot.  Also, the idea of "competitive balance" (probably badly worded but you get my drift) when it doesn't occur on it's own may elicit howls of dissatisfaction from those whose fun is . . . well, less fun after the leveling occurs.  

HT, since you asked, I'm in favor of doing something that will make a "fight" out a map that otherwise would be steamrolled.  But as I think about it, I don't which was less fun, losing or stalemate.  Just thought about it, losing is no fun.

I'd tend towards --->  

Originally posted by Soda
I think something more subtle might even things up a bit more on the longer term picture.  Something along the lines of what Kweassa suggested.

As to the details, either to perk, or to eliminate from the planeset planes that allow a country to make the most out of their numerical advantage.  I'd opt for elimination rather than perk because it would afford some not insurmountable challenges & very satisfying ones too  for the putative winner.

As a new pilot I would have hated what I just suggested.  Now, (I do hope to be back in the air in not too) long, I'd enjoy the challenge.

Best to All

Hap

[Pongo]

Dont go by straight numbers. Go by the number of enemies in a given country. No matter their country. That has the extra benifit of defensive missions not impacting sorti rate.

[Mystic99]

I can see definate merit in what you are proposing HiTech.  But on the same hand, I can see that it could have some serious downfalls as many have stated about players being trapped and the numbers shifting too drastically and throwing an inbalance in another direction.

I would be willing to give it a try and see, but are more inclined to believe that the perk system can be adjusted to be an even stronger controller of numbers yet still not be quite as harsh on the short term.  As the perk system currently is, as you become more of the underdog, perk points are more and more easily earned, and perk rides become cheaper and cheaper.  Maybe just increase this changing effect to a more dramatic level, maybe even to 1.5 times what it is at now or even 2 times.  I don't know the exact method that is being used at this time, so I cannot accurately suggest what the multiplier should be.  Maybe your most popular planes could be assigned a fractional perk point cost, so that when numbers are equal, they are free.  But as numbers get more and more unbalanced, they would start to cost a point or two.  I know that some will say that this low cost will not mean anything, but with the earning of perk points also being on the very low side, could be costly.

The idea about the wait times only penalizes the over powered side.  Where as the adjusted perk system, and the current perk system, punishes the over powered some and benefits the weaker as well.

All this is just my 2 cents.  And I am glad to be able to offer it and have someone listening.  I you, Hitech, for making the efforts to try and improve the game for all.  I brought my squad from a game, where the management just did not care.  So you have strengthened my believe that I truly made the right decision in calling Aces High our new HOME.

[JB73]

Originally posted by SlapShot
JB73 ...

I read it as ...

For every 1% over 0% you get 1 minute time out.

Rooks are %0.142857143 over, which would result in a 1 minute time out for the Rooks.

but it is only shown in a decimal format... do the math manually it is 14%

considering it is divided by the "minutes per percent over" it makes sence that way. my only question was if he was going to use the number in seconds (was it divided by 60 somewhere along the way) or if it was % of a minute which then equals 23.3333 seconds.

im still working on a formula where if the total arena number is less than 350 there is no wait.

[Midnight]

I don't think this is a good idea from a squad perspective....

Some squads are dedicated to a particular country. If the current country the squad is in gets over populated, then they can't fly when needed... So they switch countries... 15 minutes later, a couple squad mates log in and need to be organized over to the new country... Do this back and forth a few times and the squad is all screwed up.



IMO - The way to balance the system is to change gameplay to something other than steamroller for the reset. It's obvious to everyone that strat means nothing to gameplay.. it's simply a weight of numbers thing that wins the reset... and for what? some lousy perk points that are good for nothing.

If there was a strategic aspect with a working supply system that negated the steamroller effect, I think you would see less hording. Historicly, the Rooks run HUGE squad operations on Sunday night, with the sole intention of winning a reset. The reason these RJO (Rook Joint Ops) are so popular is that the gang-bang horde pig-pile method of attack works... Just keep suicide boming, vultch running through AAA until the enemy is crushed. Collect 70 Perk points... hoo ray

Make a supply system that works from the HQ out... a trickle-down of available aircraft, ords and troops. Give players only X lives per hour to reduce the suicide rate.

[Balsy]

Hitech,

I think the major thought here is what you want to accomplish by "evening out the numbers".   Is it your intent to never have resets?  If not, then I would submit that in a 3 country scenario you have effectively done little.

If this were a two country arena and one country always had 50% more flyers, I can see the logic in your proposal.  But how do you counteract a 2 on 1 country scenario?

B=150
K=150
R=200

This scenario could yield 300 enemy on 200 rooks, as often countries ignore one of their fronts and gang up on a single country.  Would it be fair that the rooks in this case would have to wait a few minutes before upping to defend against both the knits and the Bish onslaught?

Seems to me you cannot equalize unilaterally in a 3 country arena, if it were two countries with one dominant you have come up with an excellent remedy.

But this is not a 2 country scenario.

Balsy

[dedalos]

Time limits will not work.  Not everyone dies or ups at the same time.  30 secs 1 minute, will not make a diference.  You will still have the same number of people up at the same time (unless the low # sides kill at a great rate).  It will also make people avoid fights when the odds are not in their favor.  

I think limiting plane sets or perking plane sets would give people a reason to switch.  

Don't try to 'force' fix the problem.  It will fix itself if you give it time.  Give people a reason to fix it faster by themselfs, or get a new server for the BBS.  The current one will not be able to handle the whines.

[SC-Sp00k]

I accept long periods of flying time to get to a target of my choice, where im twiddling my thumbs in the air.

I cant accept long periods of sitting in a tower if im understanding this correctly just to fly a plane.

I like some have mentioned above, fly to fly with my Squaddies. My alternative to not having to wait is to log off the game and go play in an FPS or WW2Online.

Sooner or later, id be questioning whether or not it was worth my while loggin in at all if I was to get a series of stoppages because of numbers and despite loving the game would probably close my account and use the money to play something that doesnt restrict my gameplay enjoyment.

If im saying it and others are saying it, how many of those who do not post on the BBS at all and who make up the majority of the player base are saying it?

I dont like offering opinions when I myself fail to also offer a solution.  But I think this would seriously hamper my wish as a paying gamer and I would hope that this "solution" will be more carefully considered.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by JB35
, so that when ToD does come out in 2 weeks we will all be set in that frame of flying time and as such ,
so no one does get flustered and log , but instead accepts the fact that what is coming around the corner for everyone .
 

Naw, not for everyone. I for one am not remotely interested in TOD.