The Offensive Against Sadr

[Curval]

Originally posted by Glas
Where exactly did you hear that the local populace werent 'enraged' by Sadr's actions?

I haven't..can you show me something that says they are enraged?

As the media isn't feeding you anything perhaps you could enlighten me?

[Eagler]

more lasers

not one additional US soldier should suffer even a "J. skerry purple heart" level wound, otherwise known as a scratch, trying to capture/kill this nutbag

if it said action causes an "uprising" - more lasers

[Edbert]

Originally posted by babek-
The Badr militia outnumbers the Sadr militia, but these are young men who are religious fanatics.
 

Well, there's the simple answer...

Send the Badrs in after the Sadrs. Problem solved and the world is plauged with fewer militant islamicist stunninghunks. Plus the news channels are not full of pictures of Marines shooting up a Mosque.

Win, win, win to me.

[Dago]

As the media isn't feeding you anything perhaps you could enlighten me?

Yeah, me too, as you obviously have sources directly involved reporting right to you.

Anxiously awaiting,

dago

[anonymous]

the locals are mad that the insurgents are using holy sites for tactical gain and they do recognize that coalition forces making more effort to respect and protect these area than insurgent. also many insurgent are not iraqi locals know this so they see them as foreigner there making their life hard and not caring about iraqi people on caring about trying to hurt coalition forces. no amount of propoganda from other arab nation democratic party or europe can eliminate what locals are seeing day to day with own eyes.

[Glas]

Originally posted by Curval
I haven't..can you show me something that says they are enraged?

As the media isn't feeding you anything perhaps you could enlighten me?

It wasnt me who posted the assertion that the Shiites were up in arms against the US, but supporting Sadr - that was you if you remember correctly

So my point was, there is nothing to indicate this is actually the case.  Why did you state it as fact?

Glas
JG13 Lokis Kinder

[Glas]

Originally posted by Dago
Yeah, me too, as you obviously have sources directly involved reporting right to you.

No I dont, I just have an open mind about something I (and you) know absolutely nothing about, except what we are fed by the media.

In case you hadnt noticed, they are prone to exagerrating...even lying

Glas
JG13 Lokis Kinder

[Curval]

Originally posted by Glas
It wasnt me who posted the assertion that the Shiites were up in arms against the US, but supporting Sadr - that was you if you remember correctly

So my point was, there is nothing to indicate this is actually the case.  Why did you state it as fact?

Glas
JG13 Lokis Kinder

Actually it is every major news network that is making that assertion, not me.

LA Times source

BBC - In Case you think it is just the US media

Lots of others but I will not waste any more time.

But according to you this should all be ignored as just media nonesense?

Where are YOUR sources now to dispuite what THEY said as you must have a better source.  Or was this just a general "the media lies" comment you made above?

[Glas]

You have completely missed the point of my original post.

You said at the start 'the Shiites hate us for attacking a holy place, but they dont give a **** about Sadr using it as a base', or words to that effect.

I dont disagree that there may be annoyance among shiites if their holy places are damaged by the US, but there is nothing in those reports, or in anything else I have read, to say the shiites support Sadr's use of these holy sites.

Do you have sources to back this up, since it is exactly what you claimed in your original post?

Glas
JG13 Lokis Kinder

[mosgood]

Originally posted by Curval
But these same people will be "enraged" if the place is damaged by the offensive against Sadr?  Shouldn't all that rage be pointed at Sadr if they are so upset?  Afterall, the US and Iraqi forces fighting in this offensive are doing the job of getting rid of him for them...it is Sadr who will be responsible for any damage.

Basically, the claric doesnt give a shiite, but they know that they can get simpathy from Americans

[Curval]

Originally posted by Curval
I have read an awful lot about the risk of "enraging" the Shiite population if the mosques around which the fighting is taking place are damaged.

Can someone please explain why the same people are not enraged that Sadr is using these Holy sites as his base of operations?

Just so we are clear I have quoted my original post.

I merely asked for someone to explain why they are not enraged at Sadr as I can see no evidence of this in all my reading on the subject.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't.

Now...since you seem to be saying the Shiites ARE enraged I would ask that YOU provide evidence of this.

Now...a better response for you might have been the recent rescue of hostages by an Iraqi Cleric.  I am aware of that.  BUT it is not the same issue as the using of the Mosques to battle the coalition forces.

I would also reply that if that is INDEED the feeling of the Shiites, why have we not seen THEM volunteer to go clean out the cemetary/or mosque?

[anonymous]

they dont want anyone in the holy sites. but if you are civvie living in area currently controlled by insurgents youre probably not going to speak up against them taking cover in the nearest holy site. even locals who know that coalition is after insurgent and does best to avoid civvie casualties are terrified of doing anything but going to ground in area where no incoming rounds once the fighting starts. these are people who have lived in war zone for at least several months now. when they hear that coalition "gearing up" they are going to hide away as deep and as safe as they can even if they shooting the breeze with you day before yesterday while trading food and such. what is telling is that instead of being upset equally at everyone responsible for fighting they are now taking matters into own hands against foreign arabic insurgent. majority of time you hear about raid that uncoveres cache of weapons or munitions the tip came from locals living in the area of the cache. they arent stupid if they aware of insurgent stockpiling weapons and munitions in such manner as to have them "ready for action" instead of "hiding in deep hole" they know that the brawl is going to happen on their block.

[anonymous]

Originally posted by Curval
Just so we are clear I have quoted my original post.

I merely asked for someone to explain why they are not enraged at Sadr as I can see no evidence of this in all my reading on the subject.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't.

Now...since you seem to be saying the Shiites ARE enraged I would ask that YOU provide evidence of this.

Now...a better response for you might have been the recent rescue of hostages by an Iraqi Cleric.  I am aware of that.  BUT it is not the same issue as the using of the Mosques to battle the coalition forces.

I would also reply that if that is INDEED the feeling of the Shiites, why have we not seen THEM volunteer to go clean out the cemetary/or mosque?

because iraqi govt does not want armed civilian in battle area. iraqi army is spearheading operations into cemetary and areas of holy sites so fellow iraqis are in sensitive area less chance for insurgent to play "infidels defile your dead and your temples" propoganda card.

[Curval]

Originally posted by anonymous
they dont want anyone in the holy sites. but if you are civvie living in area currently controlled by insurgents youre probably not going to speak up against them taking cover in the nearest holy site. even locals who know that coalition is after insurgent and does best to avoid civvie casualties are terrified of doing anything but going to ground in area where no incoming rounds once the fighting starts. these are people who have lived in war zone for at least several months now. when they hear that coalition "gearing up" they are going to hide away as deep and as safe as they can even if they shooting the breeze with you day before yesterday while trading food and such. what is telling is that instead of being upset equally at everyone responsible for fighting they are now taking matters into own hands against foreign arabic insurgent. majority of time you hear about raid that uncoveres cache of weapons or munitions the tip came from locals living in the area of the cache. they arent stupid if they aware of insurgent stockpiling weapons and munitions in such manner as to have them "ready for action" instead of "hiding in deep hole" they know that the brawl is going to happen on their block.

Okay, fair enough.

But, they should CONTROL their rage agaisnt the coalition if they are the ones getting rid of the insurgents.

[Curval]

Originally posted by anonymous
because iraqi govt does not want armed civilian in battle area. iraqi army is spearheading operations into cemetary and areas of holy sites so fellow iraqis are in sensitive area less chance for insurgent to play "infidels defile your dead and your temples" propoganda card.

Are all of the Iraqis spearheading this assault Shiites?

If not then I forsee problems.