I need your input guys.

[X2Lee]

Originally posted by TheBug
Not to discredit your opinion on icons, but I have to disagree that planes are easy to see in real life.  They can be very difficult to spot, especially in the sun or with the ground detail behind them.

That would fall in line with Erich Hartmanns comments that he believed that the majority of his victims, never knew he was there.

well if the sun is in your eyes is a given. I can see aircrafy miles away. whether im in the air or on the ground. I say u can see them for 5 to 6 miles according to conditions and sunglint and such.

The icon range reminds me of AW FR  
a unreal consequence to put you in a flight parameter.
The Icons are unreal to make u fly in certain parameters.

[X2Lee]

Originally posted by talliven

Originally posted by X2Lee
the icon range is the worst thing about the CT
I can see well anyway and dots are harder to see in Ah2 than ah1
but planes are easy to see in real life.

Trust me, planes arn't all that easy to see in real life.  It is quite common to have ATC tell us there is an aircraft 12oclock 5 miles opposite direction 1000 feet below, and neither me nor captain ever see it.  And these are 737's and such, much bigger and not painted to blend in like most fighters.

Disagree, I am a pilot also and sure you dont see all the traffic,
But you CAN see planes 3-4 miles out lots of times.

in other words, you CAN see that far, even if you dont see the traffic.

[Redd]

Originally posted by simshell
what would you rather want to keep short icons or people?


Nope  - don't want no short people round here  

[storch]

Originally posted by Grits
I was very surprized to see how many folks in Hawks poll said they didnt fly the CT because of the Icon range. I can understand folks wanting their favorite ride, but the whines about the short Icon ranges caught me off guard. The thought that you could positively ID a plane at 6000 yards EVERY TIME  is preposterous. Short Icon ranges is one of the things that MAKES the CT what it is. Is 3000 yards, two miles away, not enough? Holy cow.

Maybe give more dot dar coverage, but I say we should keep the short Icon ranges.

Geez me too!!! You guys would never agree with me about no dot dar  then huh.

Wait here's an idea why don't we extend Icon range to the max and take turns flying on auto at 3k.  would that bring more people into the arena?

Seriously, the thing I like about the CT is the overall skill level in here.  It's better than in the MA.  There are some guys who participate in the MA and are stars, you get them in here and ehhhhh. It is a little harder to game the game here.  The ones that become upset leave angry do so because they don't want to play.  They want to rack up points blowing up cartoon things.

We are seeing more new faces and also old faces returning.  Let's just continue to welcome everyone but essentially keep the arena progressing through small changes rather than sweeping ones.  That way it will be easier to see what works and what doesn't and to what degrees.

As to the Icon thing.  Extend, shorten it or eliminate it.  It doesn't matter to me I have great mk1 eyeballs.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

Originally posted by simshell
what would you rather want to keep short icons or people?



i like anything with a rolling planeset thing going   loved it with my short stay at warbirds

Short icons. Wanna run me off, bring in the D6.0 icons

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

Originally posted by B17Skull12
i can see why icons is a problem.  i ran a 1024x756 setup on the last ETO we had.  i had a royal pain in the bellybutton finding cons.  i didn't see most til i saw red.  even on the sea.  most these guys and you guys i bet are running at high screen res.  impossible to see dots at more than 3k.  you could litterally fly over one and not he was there.

I use 1280 res and hate icons set further than D3

[Squire]

I don't really care all that much about the short or long icons in the CT...if it really brought the #s up in a meaningfull way I would say go with long, but im not convinced it would. "My squad flies 190D-9s and Typhoon's, where are they?" groups will still stay away.

ASW...I have read your post three times and maybe you could tell us why exactly your squad doesn't come to the CT?, because its not clear, and what is a "squad buy-in" because I have no clue what that is either.

[Grits]

Originally posted by Squire
I don't really care all that much about the short or long icons in the CT...if it really brought the #s up in a meaningfull way I would say go with long, but im not convinced it would.

Same here, I prefer short icons, but if long icons by themselves will increase the number of victi....err....players, I'd be all for it. I'm not so sure it would really make a difference but it cant hurt to try.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Grits
Same here, I prefer short icons, but if long icons by themselves will increase the number of victi....err....players, I'd be all for it. I'm not so sure it would really make a difference but it cant hurt to try.

Try the MA icon settings.  In response to P6e's thread over in General Discussions, that was the most frequently given reason for avoiding the CT.  I doubt that any one of us - including the sleep-deprived P6e - would give short icon ranges as the most important reason we fly in the CT (heck, it turns out he's been flying with long icons for awhile and just now noticed it).  By changing that one thing, we at least shut up a large group of anti-CT people.

Follow Arlo's and Bug's advice on being good ambassadors from the CT.  We already see the results with the new faces appearing every night.  Plus, it's just plain good manners.

I certainly think it would be fun to try Reschke's ideas about rolling plane sets and limited match-ups.  I believe it was Fork who tried a version of RPS in one of the Pac setups, and most of us fondly remember the week of P-38 v. Nik.  But I don't think that sort of thing will bring in new people (instead, it keeps the rest of us interested).

We're never going to be able to grab the people who insist on always flying late-war planes, and I don't think it's worth spending a lot of effort trying to bring them in.  They'll occasionally stop by when we're running a late-war week and the Pizza Map is up in the MA, but otherwise we just don't offer what they want.  The ones who come are the ones who want to try something different, and they stay because this place is both different and more pleasant.

....er....that's what I think, at least.

- oldman

[B17Skull12]

btw Reschke i agree.  just dont do rolling plane sets that start new each month.

[Mike_2851]

Originally posted by storch
We are seeing more new faces and also old faces returning.  Let's just continue to welcome everyone but essentially keep the arena progressing through small changes rather than sweeping ones.  That way it will be easier to see what works and what doesn't and to what degrees.

There are many good points in this thread but I think this is one of the better ones that should not be ignored.

Change can be just as bad as it is good, I wouldn't think that changes should be implemented that gain 15 to 20 new players but end up losing 10 to 15 current CT regulars. I'm not whining nor complaining as to change-merely trying to emphasize storch's point.

One example would be the elimination of manable guns on the CV's due to "beach parking"-good idea, for the right reasons, but... Last night there was at least one (maybe two) allied fleets sailed in close proximity to one axis CV. There were good fights, hardly any flight time, big continuious furball. But we were each flying in each others flak-to me-just like beach parking but more of an equal basis I guess. Anyway the point being-I believe that several people logged-I know I did, and there were many before me that expressed frustration. No matter what you change or how much-there will still be people that game-the-game.

Keep the eye on "progress" and not so much "change". Contrary to some beliefs Reschke, there is a lot of good intel on the current and reserve CT staff, listen to them, listen to the CT community, make your decisions and carry on.

BTW- to Reschke for asking, and to all others for giving the input that he requested.

[Grits]

Yup, I moved the northern allied CV farther away, not too far away only about 1/2 a sector, but that was after you guys logged.

So far I think the no-CV-gunner thing has been a big success. You still get chewed apart if you fly through the CV group, but TBM's and B5N's have a slight chance to make a torpedo run, where with gunners they have none.

The only possible problem is if one side has a significant advantage in Jabo (like now with the F6F-5) and that side made a concerted effort to sink a CV, I dont see it getting stopped. If we had even Jabo capabilities (like if we had the F6F-3) it should be fine. I'm not saying the F6F-5 should be removed, just using it as an example of how not having the CV gunners might be exploited.

[memnon]

My thought's

No dat dar was fun but a pain in the butt however it keeps you on your toes not knowing if that dot you see on the horizion is friend or foe i vote we keep it for a little longer.

Long and short icons i think the short icons is more realalistic even though it is just like the no dot dar in the sense that it is a pain in the butt. I think that is one of the things that sets the CT apart from the MA. If you go to the long icons i think you are just making the CT more like the MA. The idea behind the CT is to be more Historically accurate (right or not) that being said if someone comes over from the MA and then leaves because the icons are to short or there is no dot dar then more than likely they have no interest in playing in an historiacally accurate setting any way.

Manned ack Off very bad idea. I agree that with it off you don't have to worry about being shot down by all the eagle eyed sharp shooter's on the other hand when someone new or from the MA does come in and see's that there is no way to defend the fleet other than upping a plane there going to log. Is there any way to turn off just the 8 and 5 inch guns and still leave the forties and twenties. It is harder to hit a screaming nme with those but it does give the chance to defend the fleet a little bit.

Rotating plane sets Brilliant idea there's not much more to say other than i think this is the transfusion that the CT needs right now:aok

CT ambassadors another excellent idea would help the CT staff out as well as getting the word out to others in the different arena's. I talked with a guy a couple of nights back and he was telling me that he was wanting to bring his squad over from the MA so he and another squadie was checking the CT out. I told him that if he had any questions to ask and that i would try to answer if i knew the answer and if not someone else in the CT might. He seemed very pleased when he left. Now with that being said there was a little altircation with he's squad mate and a CT regular which ended with the MA person leaving with a bad taste in his mouth about the CT. If we are going to have CT Ambassador's we all need to be them.

Advertising: To get more people into the CT we need to let them know it exist's. I have said this before and i will say it again Arlo's banners are fantastic but they don't reach everyone. There are alot of poeple that play AH that don't even come in here and read the message board's so how can they see the banner. I still say that we need to ask Hitech, Skuzzy, or whoever about posting a message in the buffer of the MA, TA, and the DA about the CT and let them know it exist's. I can't count how many times when i was in the MA and was chating with someone and made mention of the CT and they said what is that.

I think it was Grits that said that it is up to us the CT community to make the CT better and into what it can be. Let's do it let's make the CT so enjoyable that everyone will want to be in the CT.

[jamusta]

I venture into the CT everynow and then. To me as it stands now it is just a mini MA with limited plane set. Add the short ICON range and it really isnt that fun. The problem is finding a fight. Chasing cons just to find out you have been chasing a friendly blows. The rolling plane set up seems interesting and I would be willing to drag my squad in to try it out.