Author Topic: Question for Christians re: the news  (Read 3156 times)

Offline TweetyBird

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #75 on: August 15, 2004, 01:18:06 PM »
>>when did the word "Christian" become a bad word to so many? <<

Oddly enough, the answer lies in your quote.

>>Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization.<<

Although, I believe Churchill's motives to be patriotic, the rhetoric of claiming that God is on one's side, has perverted religion. Its also incredibly arrogant to assume one knows God's plan. I don't think there is such a thing as a holy war, as war is a tool of man.

I think spiritualism/salvation/enlightenment is an extremely personal journey away from materialism. I find those who wish to hurry you along or force you down their path, are more interested in possessing you than your personal salvation.

If you are Christian, you believe God as already taken the appropriate measures to ensure your salvation. There is NOTHING man can do to improve it.

So when people try to whip you into a frenzy that you have to fight a certain way, vote a certain way, or do ANYTHING other than develope your personal relationship with God, they're perverting religion. Its an attempt to skew the perspective to mob mentality. Although its very helpful in war (where one breaks material things), it seems contradictory to spiritualism (where one attempts to *divorce* themself from material things).

The short answer is Christianty became a bad word when it was perverted, just as other religions have been perverted for power (political, military, economic etc.).
« Last Edit: August 15, 2004, 01:21:45 PM by TweetyBird »

Offline phookat

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #76 on: August 15, 2004, 01:43:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
I think spiritualism/salvation/enlightenment is an extremely personal journey away from materialism. I find those who wish to hurry you along or force you down their path, are more interested in possessing you than your personal salvation.


True in the case of the powerful, I think, but not the weak.  For example, I'd say a guy like Bin Laden falls into this category, but a peon kid terrorist taught at one of those schools on the Pak border does not.

storch

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #77 on: August 15, 2004, 01:55:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by phookat
It isn't.  More interesting question: when did the word "****" become a bad word to so many?



Politicians talk a lot. ;)  Hitler: "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter."  Obviously, that does not mean Christians are evil--in fact it does not even mean Hitler is a Christian.  It means politicians talk a lot.  Hitler was evil because he was evil.  The Brits were good becuase they were good.


Really???? Let's poll the Zulus at Rourke's Drift!

Offline phookat

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #78 on: August 15, 2004, 02:05:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Really???? Let's poll the Zulus at Rourke's Drift!


I was referring to one specific conflict.  Obviously I am not trying to imply that all Brits are "good" all the time.  Take the point, don't go off on tangents.

The point remains that neither "All Christians are Evil" nor "All Christians are Good" is a true statement.

Offline demaw1

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #79 on: August 15, 2004, 02:51:21 PM »
Charon....value


..I have something of value to add, only to those that do not believe, they know all about a subject by living next door to said subject.  Nevertheless I did not mean any disrespect.

Offline J_A_B

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #80 on: August 15, 2004, 03:05:50 PM »
Chairboy--

Do you really think that the people who agree with such actions would have the guts to publicly admit it?






J_A_B

storch

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #81 on: August 15, 2004, 03:24:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by phookat
I was referring to one specific conflict.  Obviously I am not trying to imply that all Brits are "good" all the time.  Take the point, don't go off on tangents.

The point remains that neither "All Christians are Evil" nor "All Christians are Good" is a true statement.


Hitler was evil and the Brits were good huh.  Both Hitler and the Brits were both good and evil actually we can boil it down further.  There are no good humans.  no, not even one.

Offline capt. apathy

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #82 on: August 15, 2004, 03:36:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
when did the word "Christian" become a bad word to so many?




doubt if you could put a date on it, but here are a couple of the things that I believe are at the root of our problem.

   when many of our members, and leaders in particular, give blind support of people who say they are Christian, even if the actions these people take, the goals these actions seem to be leading to, and the things they actually support (through action, not lip service) aren't anything close to the teachings our religion is built upon.

 when the idea that we could use violence, legislation, and other forms of coercion to force people to be moral or 'good people'.  all we do is teach them that it's ok to force others to conform to your will.


basically the whole idea that the end justifies the means.  it doesn't.  you simply cannot lower the amount of evil in the world while adding to it with your own evil acts.  this kind of thinking is nothing more than childish justification of our own desire to do evil but being to weak to just admit it.

  it's much easier to continue lying to yourself and telling yourself that the evil you do is in the name of God.  it's a cop-out, a way of hiding your own evil from yourself so you can avoid the effort and pain involved in removing or suppressing it from your life.

  very convenient overall, the best of both worlds.  you can lash out and do all the evil of those you hate, but as long as you never admit to yourself that the evil is there it doesn't get in the way of those wonderful feelings of self-righteousness.


these types of 'Christians' stand out, non-Christians see them and add the impression to their picture of Christians as a whole.  all Christians don't act this way, but it doesn't take many for us all to be painted with that brush.


So, what do we do about it?
  deal with these types?  tell them they need to change their ways or stop calling themselves Christian?  some sort of punishment for these offenses?  political, social, or economic pressure?

if we do any of those than even if we stop them we haven't helped the problem, we've just replaced them in their mission.

the answer seems simple to me but it seems to escape the majority of Christians I know, so maybe I've got it wrong.  but my solution would be to take instruction from our own scriptures.
  you teach people to be compassionate by being compassionate.
  you teach people to be honorable by being honorable.
  you teach people to be kind by being kind.
  you teach people to be faithful by being faithful.
  you teach people respect by being respectable.
  you teach people to be decency by being decent.

nowhere in the Gospel have I read a passage where Jesus responded to the evil done to him, or the evil in the world in general by raising an army and laying waste to a nation.  nor have I read a single line where he ordered, recommended, or blessed any man to take on such a mission.

  we are charged to overpower this world in the name of God.   we are told specifically how to do it.  we are to set an example.  we are to try to live our lives as a positive force, to draw contentment, courage and determination from our relationship with God.  we are to use that courage and determination to stand up to evil, to tell it it has no place to live in our hearts.

or to sum it up-  you should make every effort to think before you act, and when you do try to consider 'What Would Jesus Do', and try to act accordingly.  Don't cheer on or give praise or support to people who encourage behavior that isn't compatible with this.

this, along with the promise of salvation is the very essence of Christianity.  If you don't agree with with this way of leading your life, if you don't believe that this is the proper course to take then it may be time to admit to yourself that you're not a Christian.

(to Eagler,
 after re-reading what I wrote I noticed that some parts of my post could be interpreted as being directed at you and not just as a response to your question.  thats not what I intended but I'm to lazy to go back and re-word those parts, so just know that the 'you' I refer to is the people I see this behavior in, not you.  I really don't know you well enough to make that kind of judgment about you and it wouldn't be my place if I did.  this is just another thing that people need to try and find and change in themselves instead of trying to change others.)

Offline phookat

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #83 on: August 15, 2004, 03:51:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Hitler was evil and the Brits were good huh.  Both Hitler and the Brits were both good and evil actually we can boil it down further.  There are no good humans.  no, not even one.


Yes, true, no one is completely good or completely evil.  If you took the opposite to be my point then you missed it.

storch

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #84 on: August 15, 2004, 05:13:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by phookat
Yes, true, no one is completely good or completely evil.  If you took the opposite to be my point then you missed it.


Here let me clear it up further.  NO ONE is good, eg.  EVERYONE is evil.  That is my point.  very divergent world views.

Offline phookat

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #85 on: August 15, 2004, 05:47:32 PM »
Fine, if you want to believe everyone is completely evil, have at it.  LOL.

storch

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #86 on: August 15, 2004, 06:04:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by phookat
Fine, if you want to believe everyone is completely evil, have at it.  LOL.


I'll take it a step further Evil Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin or Saddam Hussein or Fidel Castro or Ted Bundy were no more evil than Good Mother Teresa or Albert Schwitzer or Louis Pasteur or Karol Wojtyla or Saul of Tarsus or Martin Luther or John Calvin or John Wesley or John Knox or Dwight L. Moody.   I understand that the pagan mind will have a hard time grasping that concept.

Care to know my reasoning why?

Offline phookat

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #87 on: August 15, 2004, 06:39:02 PM »
Sure, go ahead.

Offline demaw1

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #88 on: August 15, 2004, 07:31:55 PM »
Almost said why storch but this is you fight ,lol,good luck.

  Cap. apathy...I finally figured out what WWJD means ,took a while. I know WWJD would do , he required his soul ,I am sure you know what that means....I would have done nothing as I am not Jesus and would not have known what was in his heart.

  I have to reply to your last post...but realize if I cant in the right way then I cant reply. I would if we were face to face.

Offline demaw1

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Question for Christians re: the news
« Reply #89 on: August 15, 2004, 07:33:59 PM »
J A B      I did so whats the problem?