Author Topic: Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?  (Read 1654 times)

Offline Pongo

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2000, 09:15:00 AM »
Sounds like your vulch is not tight enough.
Usually problems with ground fighters getting troops arise as the goon approaches during a lull in the vulch. If the vulch is at its tightest when 20 grunts are dropped right on the bunker. that field will be gone 9 out of 10 times.
we have no ground troops to perform base defence. We must use the only weapons that we have.
The problem is that the grunts are not armed.
give them each a 7.7 mm lmg....

Offline Fishu

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2000, 10:07:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo:
Sounds like your vulch is not tight enough.
Usually problems with ground fighters getting troops arise as the goon approaches during a lull in the vulch. If the vulch is at its tightest when 20 grunts are dropped right on the bunker. that field will be gone 9 out of 10 times.
we have no ground troops to perform base defence. We must use the only weapons that we have.
The problem is that the grunts are not armed.
give them each a 7.7 mm lmg....

If theres some 'smart' guy or two defending the base, that base will be gone only 2 out of 10 times.. or should I share my experiences?

Offline pzvg

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2000, 02:27:00 PM »
Now the whole issue it seems to me is, is this allowable by the community? I've seen popup buffs, circle-strafe buffs, hell I have even watched a buff chase Dingy around the field (both taxing) nope doesn't sound like tactical desperation ta me, more like "gaming the game" same goes for dropping ur gear in a turn fight to force an overshoot,
nobody did that crap in the war (heck half these planes gear was manually cranked up, making it an impossibility. Simple fix for popups is once the hanger is blown, there are no more A/C at that field, just heaps of smoldering wreckage, if we want a credible ground defense that would be difficult to suppress and extermely effective against lightly armed infantry,it's called a tank  
(hint preferably a Panther Ausf G)


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Offline CptTrips

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2000, 03:22:00 PM »
Naw man the way you do it is just as you ".join" a buff you have to ".join" a gooney as a drunk.  You get dropped on the field like a little quake dude and the field allow upto 5 base defense quake dudes to spawn and shoot it out with you.  They need to change it tho so only one player needs to make it to the tower to take the field.  Leave the drunks to the base defense grunts. Muhhahah.

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Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Yeager

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2000, 05:48:00 PM »
Have guns, will shoot.

Checks accepted here.....

In other words, shooting should be disabled wheels on ground (I thought they were).

Shooting in bomber requiring the pilot to leave the controls, the term ackstar simply does not and will not apply in my operations manual.

Using a B26 for ground attack is completely within the boundries of acceptable behavior
(forward firing weapons attest to the fact).

Having a con fly in front while pilot at controls and said pilot shooting con down
(even employing heavy ACM) with said forward firing weapons is also completelely legit and exciting as well.

Yeager
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Offline iculus

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2000, 07:21:00 PM »
Central,

I agree...You'll find me in the nose of a fort more than at the controls of a fighter, but(!) I just am not fond of those who hop in a B-17 at a capped base, simply to shoot troops.  

Also, the B-17's at Midway were not running suicide runs into enemy fire.  They were trying to drop bombs from altitude on the Japanese carriers much prior to the attack by the SBD's.  I don't believe that the forts scored a hit.

Salute,
IC

Offline BigJim

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2000, 09:28:00 PM »
Central, ackstar refers to a bomber on the ground using its defensive guns to fight from the ground, since they have been disabled on the ground the new tactic is to use the nose .50's of the B-26 WHILE ON THE GROUND, your idea of disabling guns on the ground is a good one.  the A-26 (B-26 varient) was used in ground support roles in the war and even obtained some airel kills vs fighters with it's nose guns.

Offline bloom25

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2000, 09:55:00 PM »
I often drop to low altitude after a bombing run to an enemy base when I am flying a b26.  After the bombs are gone, I can't see anything wrong with using those forward firing guns to strafe any remaining targets, and if that happens to be a fighter taking off, so much the better.  I agree that this method of vulching is somewhat cheap, but if you didn't shoot the planes taking off, very soon they would be the ones shooting at you.  In the case when a c47 is on the way, I will ALWAYS do everything I can to assist it.  I once even hit an enemy fighter taking off with a bomb.  

When flying the b17, I hardly ever attempt a strafing run.  It is far to hard to go from cockpit, to gun, back to cockpit etc.  Also the b17 just doesn't have the firepower that the b26 possesses with those forward guns.  (Up until the last version, I almost always lost my elevator as well when putting the plane on autopilot.   )

As far as taking off from a capped field with a bomber to battle the fighters, I used to do this back in beta tour 1.  I don't do it anymore, because I generally to better taking up a quick TnB fighter, like an la5, c205  , or even (eek) spit.  It is pretty hard to get a bomber off the ground at a well capped field anyway.  If you are new to this game, I personally don't see anything wrong with trying to support your country any way you can.  I'm sure, however, that once someone gains experience in fighters, they will prefer to use them instead.  Besides, I don't know of anything much easier to kill then a b17 just taking off.  

Just my opinions on this subject.
 

Offline Dinger

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2000, 02:59:00 AM »
Ah yes, I remember when people claimed "In AH there can be no ackstars because guns are manned", and I thought how naive this was.
Let me say, once again, IRL™ arguments have no basis in a strat system based on field capture.  If WWII were fought as AH (Field Capture = the way to ultimate victory), you'd see plenty of buffs capping bases.
     The way the current strat system is set up, you have to heavily suppress a field in order to get a goon in.  The bombers in this game do really well at strafing things on the ground.  But in a dogfight, they're outmatched.
      It's a rule.  If the enemy at the moment has air superiority such that their bombers can fly NOE over your base unmolested, don't take off.
      And yes, I will on occasion decide to be vulched.  And I do wait in the tower until I spy a low dot, then grab a Spit with HS (for goon) and 303s (for anyone who might decide to leave the goon) and go to town.  And I do believe that using a B17 to strafe troops on ground is as offensive as taxistrafing: the ground forces have been destroyed, and you're using the infinite respawning of A/C to fill the gap.

Offline SC-GreyBeard

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2000, 12:55:00 AM »
On more than 1 occassion, I've used my 17 as a gun platform to suppress a base. Usually untill at least 3 capping fighters show up.

Sometimes I survive, mostly I don't.
Whats the problem???

Conversely, if I can get my 17 off the ground and defend a base, I'm gonna do it.

Haven't yet flown a 26 on a sortie, so I have no idea how to use it.

If it has forward firing guns, that can be used to kill drunks,, then perhaps those guns should suffer as do the 17's turrets, no firing while on wheels.
Of course, running over the little bastiges will work also....




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Offline Downtown

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2000, 10:19:00 AM »
Well,

The other night (I'm a ROOK BTW) a fellow rook got his name in the buffer a few times.

I think on one sortie he got 38 and on the next 14.

I was not flying a B-26, he parked it near the spawning point of a field in contention.

Now, normally I would have made much noise and beratement of this individual for such activity, but I didn't.

I didn't because I watched a pony spawn from that field a few minutes before, and kill two Paratroopers dropped by a C-47.  Killing those two Paras kept us from capturing that field.

What I would like to see is!!!

1. Allow all buff guns to be on, all times.  If someone wants to park a B-17 on a runway and use it as an Ack Platform, SO BE IT.  No Gear Up and No Weight on Wheels, let them sit in their plane on the ground, and shoot from the top turret and sides and nose and tail.

2. Make it so that If I drop a bomb from alt, it will kill any planes I hit.

3. Make it so if I bomb all the ammo bunkers at a field new spawning planes at that field don't get ammo, until that team flies in a C-47 and lands at that field to deliver Ammo/Fuel/Parts/Troops/Etc.. Etc.. or the Ammo Bunkers Rebuild.

4. Make it so that if I bomb the fuel at a particular Airfield, and planes spawning on the runway at a particular field, do so with no fuel, until a C-47 arrives at that field delivering Fuel/Ammo/Parts/Troops/Etc... Etc... or that Fuel Bunkers Rebuild.

5. Make it so that If I bomb all the System Targets at a field (Hangar/Tower/Barraks) Then NO PLANES CAN SPAWN AT A FIELD.  SOmeone who clicks Fly or types .Fly will just be a Pilot who is Planeless at the spawning point.

What I am saying here is.

If you are at a Airfield under attack, and a buff comes over and takes out the ack, you will be spawning at a vultch fest.  If you choose to spawn a B-17 and use it as Ack, you can do so.  Then the NME Bomber, takes out the AMmo Bunkers, the next time you spawn that B-17 and move to a gun position, and squeeze the trigger nothing happens cause that field is out of ammo.  Meanwhile the B-17 bombs the Fuel BUnkers, and the next time you spawn in that B-17 you can't even start the engines cause there is no fuel at that airfield.  So you sit at the spaawning point of the runway, in a B-17 with no ammo and no fuel.

Now, you have a choice, after your unarmed, imobile bombers is vultched, spawn from another field, and fly a C-47 to the field in contention, and deliver fuel, say a C-47 can Carry 5000 Gallons of AV Fuel, 50,000 Rounds Of Various Amuniton, and 5 paras.

Your feild can't rebuild without the barracks cause there are no troops to do the rebuilding.

So, flying in 10 C-47 from another field to the field in Contention will cause a complete restoration of that field facilities.

THe Attackers should only need to drop or deliver 10 paras in 1 C-47 to capture a field.

Of course all these other features (Concerning your ability to get a fully loaded C-47 to a field in contention should depend on the overall health of your nation.  If your AMmo Factory/COmplex has been bombed out, then you can only fly 10,000 rnds from another field to the field in contention.)

Anyhow, what this does is add another strategic element to field capture, disabling the STRATEGIC TARGETS at a field in contention will have an Positive effect in making the field more capturable, and limit the defenders rescources.  I personally would BOmb the ACK/AMMO/FUEL, and then let them spawn unarmed/unfueld aircraft all day.

Leave them sitting at the spawning point, helpless as I land my C-47 and unload my Paras Right by the map room.  If they want to try and stop me, they have to take off from a field with fuel and ammo, and intercept me, or survive the flight to the field in contention, and strafe my Paras/C-47 before I fully unload it.

I will cross post a good portion of this to the Gameplay/Feedback Issues Forum.

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Offline Pongo

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2000, 11:58:00 AM »
Downtown. I think that would make base defence for inferior numbered counties imposible and allow resets of every 30 miniuts. I know its sounds good but putting more restrictions on the defenders wont work without some serios restrictions on the attacker.
Imagine how easy the last 2 fields would be to capture. There is no where else for the defenders to go. 4 b26s(pretty much un-interceptable) could totaly remove the only places where the defending pilots could take off.
Or alternetivley any group of 6 bombers could quickly remove a counties ability to take of from their 3 high fields...
anyway. Allot of otherthings would have to change.
Like if you get shot down over enemy territory you cant fly for 20 min or something.


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Pongo
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Offline Downtown

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Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2000, 01:59:00 PM »
Well, I assume that this will need to Happen.

B-17G will only be able to launch from fields that can handle B-17s, and B-26s will launch from fields that can handle both B-17s and B-26s.

No more being able to launch from any field with all aircraft.  I assume that as more Arenas/Terrains are introduced this will occur.  HEck the runways we have now at all fields are barely long enough to take of in a B-17, let alone land.

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Lincoln "Downtown" Brown.
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Those who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
Hals und beinbruch!