Author Topic: The Nitty Gritty (Read 2441 times)

Kev367th · « **Reply #60 on:** August 19, 2004, 09:39:27 AM »

Hi Slapshot,
So you don't think the influx of Bish and Knit squads to Rooks to help even things out helped?
Not meant as an attack, but everyone seems to overlook or not mention this little tidbit when talking about hard work, co-operation etc.
The original theme of my thread was to try and find out why what has happened in the past, isn't happening now.

4510 · « **Reply #61 on:** August 19, 2004, 09:40:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Jackal1
So, in essence you are saying that the majority of players are playing for the capture aspect and that`s what they find enjoyable? Then you are saying to take away what the majority enjoys? Yea, that makes sense. lol

Well... if we are trying to force a cross-level that is counter to the underlying premise of the game (landgrab) we are in effect doing the same thing. Not as blatantly... but the same thing.

Kev367th · « **Reply #62 on:** August 19, 2004, 09:44:16 AM »

Even numbers does not mean no land grab, just makes it harder.
More organization is required thats all.

4510 · « **Reply #63 on:** August 19, 2004, 09:49:05 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
NB: I agree that the system could change peoples playing style.

But why would it be different from 1 country to the next, or why would it create a country imbalance?

I think the answer to that has already been posted a little further up this thread. When the Rooks were down they had no defineable "personality" or squads that were recognizeable in the arena. Large squads working together actually dictated success for a country. Nonsquad people just sort of tagged along with the game plan.

People gravitate towards success. Rooks just happen to have their time in the sun.... and the resultant migration shows that. Of course... Rook squads continue to grow in numbers because as individuals come sample the Rook experience they are buying into it and staying.

Of course.. this enables more efficient land grabs... which is the most measurable manifestation of success.

Our current crossleveling fix really is counter to all the dynamics that the players currently seem to adhere to. If we expect a continous migration in a dynamic arena we are expecting something that flies in the face of the gameplay model upon which the arena is built.

Constant migration works in the CT. It is counter to a squad based, cooperative based, country based, real estate agent based, reset based gameplay model that defines the MA.

4510 · « **Reply #64 on:** August 19, 2004, 09:52:53 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th
Even numbers does not mean no land grab, just makes it harder.
More organization is required thats all.

But if you leave land grab as the preeminant goal... then we don't bother to cross-level. We just say... "Fine... it may be tougher.. but we'll just work harder... we still out number them... we will just do the job with less capable equipment." I don't think that is what we are trying to achieve. If the problem exists of hordes ruining peoples fun.... hordes of P-40s suck almost as badly as hordes of P-51s.... unless you are willing to run from them. Most people don't find running enjoyable.

Our goal was to cross-level....

Kev367th · « **Reply #65 on:** August 19, 2004, 10:20:17 AM »

True hoards of P40s are just as bad as hoardes of P51s. Point being for the outnumbered country it levels the playing field (short term) if not the numbers.
Remember this is still very much in its infancy, I have seen a lot of new Bish last few days, but it may take months to even things out.
This fix isn't an instant everything will balance out fix. It's designed I believe to accomplish 2 goals.
1) Short term the playing field is evened a little.
2) Long term the countries are more evened than they currently are.

Nwbie · « **Reply #66 on:** August 19, 2004, 10:47:55 AM »

My 2 cents

Widowmakers squad been semi organized since aol AW
When we first came to AH, most of us were auto added to knits, at that time I guess knits were the low number country.
When the dust settled we decided to fly as a knit squad. During the first couple of months we tried switching countries to get a feel for the difference, went bish, at that time I guess bish were the low country, cuz it seemed like it was mostly newbs, and not a lot of organized squads other than AK's, we went rook and flew a couple months, lots of good peeps on rooks, so was fun, but I am not sure if it was because we started knit, or knits were low again but the squad as a whole voted to go back knit. Seems to me, there are more ..ahem.. older, more adult, ok, ancient damn near..players on the knits, lots of peeps most of us have known since the early 90's, we have a mix of 20 somethin to a couple of guys in their 50's flying in our squad, so it seems like knits is a better fit for our squad, we gravitate towards the furballing more, but do organize land grab when needed. I wonder if there is an age demographic difference? Does that fit in the formula? Most of the older guys seem to be furballers, Plus I am sure NB is a knit using words like machiavellian, kee--rist, what a showoff

, for a geezer at least

NwBie
(geezer himself )

SlapShot · « **Reply #67 on:** August 19, 2004, 11:54:17 AM »

Most of the older guys seem to be furballers, Plus I am sure NB is a knit using words like machiavellian, kee--rist, what a showoff , for a geezer at least

... NB did kinda sucker punch us with that one .. eh ?

I just got my AARP card ... does that qualify me as a geezer too ?

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #68 on:** August 19, 2004, 12:13:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 4510
hordes of P-40s suck almost as badly as hordes of P-51s.... unless you are willing to run from them.

I'd much rather face hordes of P-40s than hordes of P-51s.

-- Todd/Leviathn

hubsonfire · « **Reply #69 on:** August 19, 2004, 03:35:16 PM »

I've seen some interesting points in here, and I think the factors involved in the trends we see are numerous. It seems to me, that early on (sheesh, i've been playing too long), most players were either exAWers and Warbirders, as a majority, and folks from FA and whatever other sims were running at the time. This was before the huge increase in numbers that came with the aggressive advertising campaigns. I'm starting to ramble here, so I'll try to be succinct. It seems that the huge influx of folks new to flight sims in general altered gameplay. The first time a horde rolled over field after field and got a reset, it probably set some folks in their ways. "mmmm, tastes like teamdeathmatch"

Also, regarding camaraderie, with any side constantly over a barrel, you tend to get intimate with the guys over the barrels next to you. ie, with only 50 ppl on, you're bound to get better acquainted. The friendships ppl make in here can be long lasting. The 'core' rooks probably developed their fierce loyalties this way. I dunno, just a guess, seems to fit patterns in some other games.

This question is for HiTech and the crew: is there any way to tell if the recent trend in rook numbers is in proportion to the rook population in AH1? I resubscribed at about the time beta opened, and I started spending a lot more time in the beta MA than the normal MA. Initially, in beta, the rooks had some advantage of numbers (40 vs 18 vs 20 is 2 to 1, but its still only 40 ppl), and I thought the rooks had a slight advantage in AH1, but it just doesn't seem, in blurry retrospect, that the rooks were fielding outrageous numbers in AH1. I know bish were the 'horde' early on when I played AH, but i don't recall ever having fielded the numbers we've seen lately (prolly because there simply weren't enough ppl playing yet).

Anyhow, those were just some random thoughts i had. No flames, whines, or anything in here, just curious, and trying to figure out what the underlying causes are.

Random: just got my Motorcycle Permit, gonna be away from the PC for a few days. Enjoy your weekends

Cheers,

Hub

hitech · « **Reply #70 on:** August 19, 2004, 03:56:32 PM »

No way to realy tell what the trend was hubsonfire: We don't track that data.

HiTech

NoBaddy · « **Reply #71 on:** August 19, 2004, 04:06:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
Most of the older guys seem to be furballers, Plus I am sure NB is a knit using words like machiavellian, kee--rist, what a showoff , for a geezer at least

... NB did kinda sucker punch us with that one .. eh ?

I just got my AARP card ... does that qualify me as a geezer too ?

Slap...

EVERYONE is a geezer to Newbs. I will be 10 his next birthday

.

NoBaddy · « **Reply #72 on:** August 19, 2004, 04:08:16 PM »

Someone might want to check the time frame. I seem to remember the influx of Bish/Knit squads to the Rooks predating the RJO's. Am I incorrect?

hitech · « **Reply #73 on:** August 19, 2004, 04:12:39 PM »

Will some one define machiavellian for me.

HiTech

X2Lee · « **Reply #74 on:** August 19, 2004, 04:23:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 4510
I

But it isn't magic. Heck... perhaps some Squad COs from Bish and Knit should actually go fly in Rookland for awhile and see how it is done. Study the process and then take it back to their country and see if they can work it there.

You're right it aint majic it aint even hard all it takes is a desire to be a landgrabber. It very very easy. I think 75% of knights dont care about it, we are a fighter group. I think I have been involved in a reset 4 times in 3 years. If I cared to be on the winning side I wouldnt even bother changing sides I would just post a few missions and steam roll right over the map with happy knights who wanted to be base grabbers.

But then we would have to want to huh?

And I dont, and for the most part knights dont in general

Whats the funny thing about it is that some people think it matters in the least. Go on, think you are all that.
The DA is the only skill in AH I respect.

The rest is third grade level flying....

Knight and proud of it.