What I saw...

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Nash

Kerry said "Hey, it's just my opinion fellers, but this doesn't look right to me".

And that's wrong to you? I can't get behind that.... I don't get it.

Kerry did not simply state his opinion. Kerry lied and went out of his way in doing so, before the Senate no less. I don't get you Nash.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by GScholz
He said he himself committed war crimes in VN ... and he did. Thousands of Americans did.

He didn't say that in front of the Fulbright committee... read the excerpt from the Congressional record a few posts up or google it yourself.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Nash
What if the fighting is wrong?

I mean, merely engaging in a conflict does not inherently make it right. Or staying in a conflict that is rapidly going South with no end in sight is not right.

Mistakes happen, eh? They just do. People shreck up.

Kerry said "Hey, it's just my opinion fellers, but this doesn't look right to me".

And that's wrong to you? I can't get behind that.... I don't get it.

That's fine if that's what he said.  Read the testimony....that's not what he said.

It is proven through history that we lost the war and the home front not in veitnam itself.  In fact the US never lost a major battle in veitnam.....not one.

The reason I am passionate about this is because of some of the storys my uncle told me once over beers after I graduated boot camp.

The GIs would go through a vill and give the kids chewing gum, toothpast and candy bars and such.

On a return visit all the same kids that were caught with "contraband" givin to them from GIs had their hands cut off from macheties.  

He saw this more than a few times.  

Giving my enemy the a weapon to win is not justified because I do not agree with the conflict.

cmon his speech was used to torture POWs and .50 cal usage is the best you can come up with?

[demaw1]

The gunner that was with kerry on every mission kerry was on has today begged someone from the kerry camp or any democrat,independent,republicain...any organization, any one to sue him on behalf of kerry, on the grounds of slander.

He has asked the new york times, chi.tribune, la times,even george seros himself with all his money to please sue him.
He asked moore also, in public all in public , not behind closed doors,in public with public access.

 When asked why, he said because then the records will have to be opened.

 The new york daily is soon coming out with a heck of a story on this,since it is a liberal newspaper I cant wait to see how you all handle it.

 BTW, the silence has been deaffening since then.

[Nash]

GScholz.... there's a semantics thing that's happening.

It's the same as how you approach the UN vs US vs Iraq. Which is totally cool...

Because based strictly on international law, what Kerry talked about does indeed rise to the level of war crimes.

Others see it differently of course.... namely the participants. The issue is regarding Kerry's intent or culpability wrt to the war effort. So it's a bit different than an objective view of things.

Kerry did *not* admit to personally participating in war crimes, nor did he accuse anyone of participating in war crimes.

He described......... events.

To you, these events are crimes, therefore to you he admits to war crimes. To him and others, they don't meet that legal definition, thus he did not admit nor accuse anyone of war crimes.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Nash
GScholz.... there's a semantics thing that's happening.

It's the same as how you approach the UN vs US vs Iraq.

Based strictly on international law, what Kerry talked about does indeed rise to the level of war crimes.

Others see it differently of course....

But Kerry did *not* admit to personally participating in war crimes, nor did he accuse anyone of participating in war crimes.

He described......... events.

To you, these events are crimes, therefore to you he admits to war crimes. To him and others, they don't meet that legal definition, thus he did not admit nor accuse anyone of war crimes.

WRONG Nash,

He said he committed "attrocities" because he participated in "free fire zones".  Those of wich they gunned down every thing they saw man woman and child.  

All of wich no other swift boat vet has been able to confirm.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GScholz
His orders to commit war crimes like using .50 cal machineguns on people. I have yet to see any evidence of this much referred to recant of his speech.

What evidense do you have tha 50 cals were used on people under order from "above"?

Man, that would suck being shot by a 50 cal as opposed to a .223. That is a real war crime compaired to Kerry's false reports.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GScholz
They were the only anti personnel weapons on his boat. He was instructed to use them in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

Against people out in the open? Can you list a source or give some examples?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GScholz
Only what Kerry said he did. However I agree, compared to the other war crimes of that war, using .50 cals on people is peanuts.

So you take what Kerry says as truth not having any idea if what he says is true? Amazing.

Your argument has fallen with each post and now bottoms out with trusting Kerry's word over all the other Vets. Nice.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by GScholz
They were the only anti personnel weapons on his boat. He was instructed to use them in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

The hell they were.  Those boats were loaded w/ weapons.  .50s, M-60s and and everyone had a personal weapon.

I agree with you this is peanuts....so why go through it......votes maybe???

[Excel1]

Originally posted by Nash

Let me ask you this, now... Who here thought that they'd be doing this as a result of a short, fat political wonk desk jockey who never served but has a knack for making people believe, say and do things that they would have considered repulsive just months ago?

There's a sucker born every minute .
Some people are just weak minded and easily led, easy meat for politicians and their spin doctors.

Excel

[Finrod]

Originally posted by GScholz
His orders to commit war crimes like using .50 cal machineguns on people. I have yet to see any evidence of this much referred to recant of his speech.

I field this statement everyday from young troopers. Folks the conventions forbid the use of automatic cannon against personel targets, auto cannon being defined as any weapon with a high rate of fire, firing a projectile 14mm or larger. The 50 is not an auto cannon, its 12.7mm, its just a heavy machinegun. Now continue with the ranting and raving.

How's life GScholz?

[crowMAW]

Originally posted by demaw1
The gunner that was with kerry on every mission kerry was on has today begged someone from the kerry camp or any democrat,independent,republicain...any organization, any one to sue him on behalf of kerry, on the grounds of slander.

You mean Stephen "Wild Man" Gardner?

http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,599034,00.html

His talk show host fed "anybody but Kerry" attitude makes him less than credible.

Some of the swift boat vets that are supporting Kerry are Republicans who are really interested in the truth.

BTW, you won't see any law suits during the campaign.  If Kerry loses however, it might be likely that some of these folks who's stories have flip-flopped over 35 years would see the inside of a court room.  Unfortunately, to keep these kinds of Karl Rove slander/libel tactics from being used in the future.

[TalonX]

Originally posted by crowMAW
Ripsnorted from yesterday's Chicago Trib.

CONGRADULATORY MESSAGE
 

Call me a skeptic, but I doubt the Chicago Tribune would misspell congratulatory.      Makes me question the veracity of this post.

For the sake of argument, let's assume this is an accurate recreation of a real article....

One wonders whether Kerry knew at the time he would call his comrades "war criminals" during this event, or if that came later.

Opportunist - socialist - elitist - plastic man

"Gore without the charisma"  - Domocrats quote and fear

Have a nice day!

[Toad]

So, can anyone describe the Kerry plan to keep the better paying jobs at home without violating NAFTA or free trade principles?

How about the Bush supporters doing the same?

Thanks in advance.