Captured Aircraft Flight Tests, in RL, where is data?

[Vermillion]

Lately I have been interested in the actual flight tests that our FM's our based on.

Last year, while touring the Garber Facility in DC, I spoke with the people there and they indicated that the US had done extensive flight tests of all the Axis aircraft that was captured (as well as their own aircraft).

So yesterday I started searching the online NACA (now its NASA) catalog for the flight tests of these aircraft, assuming they would have been the responsible agency.

However I could find nothing on German or Japanese aircraft. I readily found listings on flight tests for P-51B, P-51D, P-39, P-63, P-47D, P-61, P-38J, Hurricane IIb, Spitfire V, two versions of Mosquito's, and a couple of more that I would have to look for again.

So where is the data on all the aircraft we captured?? I know that the US captured many copies of Me-109G's, Fw190A's, Fw190F's, Ta-152's, He-100's, Me-163, Me-262,Arado Blitz bomber, A6M5's, Ki-84's, N1K2's, and many many others that now sit in museums in the US. From some reading, I thought that many of these planes were sent to Langley AFB for testing, which is a NACA installation. But I can't find the data in NACA's listing.

Is the information with the Navy or the Air Force? If so does anyone know where to track this information down, particularly on the internet (even if its just a catalog of their hard copy resources).

I have also seen alot of references to a British installation referred to as RAE. How accessible is the British information and tests?

I know that game companies typically buy the information as a block from "technical research specialists or companies", but the data should be out there available to the public if it can just be tracked down.

Thanks guys.


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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,

[Pyro]

I would try:

Wright-Patterson
Pax River
Smithsonian

In that order.

I don't recall ever seeing a NACA test on an enemy aircraft.  Those evaluations were done by either the USAAF or the Navy.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[Vermillion]

Thanks Pyro

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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,

[funked]

Vermillion - I just remembered that the USAF Museum has a research office that can obtain documents.  They may not have the stuff but they might know how to get it.  

[Curly]

 I've scoured the USAF Museum website. Unable to find anything online  
 But (running out of time here today) here are two links that may lead to items that can  be ordered or retrieved. This one looks promising but I did not venture too far.
 http://tecnet0.jcte.jcs.mil:9000/]http://tecnet0.jcte.jcs.mil:9000/[/URL" TARGET=_blank>
 And this one
 http://www.nara.gov/nara/nail.html  
 I entered "captured, enemy, aircraft" (no quotes) and had a few hits.
 
 Nothing concrete but it is worth a deeper look.



[This message has been edited by Curly (edited 10-27-1999).]

[weretiger]

the rea paper are in the public office record in the Uk in Kew near london.

if my memory serves me well NASM was in charge of the test for the states.

The bugger with POR is that u have to go there......

note that it seems that proper fligth testing (as in retro-ingeniring) has been dropped around late 43)
after it was more comparative test
something like  P38 vr Fw190 etc.
hence actual fligth data are very very difficult to find.
paradoxaly, in my experience , experimental fligth are easy to find.
I hope it helped

[funked]

Curly:
 http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/mua.htm

If any AFB would have this info it would be Wright-Patt.  Like I said up til 47 or so Wright-Patt was what Edwards is today.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-27-1999).]

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-27-1999).]

[Westy]

Good link Funked!

 I've found the NARA archives to be a HUGE source of things. I beleive copies of what they have can be ordered.

 One example:

Title D0-335 EINFUHRUNGSFILM (D0-335 INTRODUCTION FILM)
Production Date 1943
Format silent, edited, black & white.
     
 Summary: German captured film introductory to D0-335 low wing monoplane
bomber with three blade propeller and powered by two DB-603G engines
showing ground, aerial, assembling, and test scenes including wind tunnel,
ejection seat, and landing gear tests, and partially illustrated by scale
model. Plane demonstrates flight with rear engine alone.
 Reel 1:
 l) CU scale model of D0-335 on table which revolves and shows different
    views of aircraft. This is a model of a low wing monoplane which has
    a propeller in front and also a pusher propeller in rear of fuselage.
    It is powered by two DB-603G engines. The D0-335 is a fast high-speed
    fighter bomber which has a wide range.
 2) 3/4 RV of D0-335 aircraft parked on runway -- it has a tricycle
    landing gear and looks somewhat like the U.S. XB-42 aircraft.
 3) MCU rear section of D0-335 aircraft showing partially exposed rear
    engine and a three-blade propeller. This aircraft is close to hangar
    and proped on steel stands. Text in German continues to outline in
    detail the several features of this new plane such as new wing design,
    new propeller shaft, brakes, and ailerons.
 4) CU rear section of D0-335 on stands close to hangar.
 5) CU scale model on table (German text explains the aerodynamic
    advantages of the newly designed D0-335). 6) CU drawing of front
    silhouette of D0-335 and another two-engine aircraft.
 7) CU drawing of top view of D0-335 and another two-engine aircraft
    (text again explains that to elucidate the quality characteristics of
     the D0-335 tall assembly, a model aircraft was built for research
     purposes).
 8) MCU model aircraft which looks like the D0-335 except is very small;
    has the pusher prop in rear but no front prop.
 9) CU as this aircraft is pushed on runway by three men and then it
    taxis slowly R to L. (text states that flight data from this model
    aircraft gave the proper answers to plans for D0-335).
10) Aerial views of this aircraft as it flies R to L and then performs
    loops, barrel rolls, etc. (text states that data from this plan
    enabled Dornier Co. to build a scale model which was tested in their
    wind tunnel).
11) CU scale model, D0-335 undergoing wind tunnel test.
12) Pan to top of wind tunnel of man recording instrument data.
13) CU same scale model undergoing a spin test in tunnel (text states that
    the next D0-335 underwent stress tests on its fuselage, wings, and
    tail assembly).
14) CU interior of large hangar where parts of D0-335 are undergoing
    stress tests.
15) CU man sitting by a piano-type stress recording mechanism.
16) CU landing gear struts and wheels undergoing tests inside hangar.
17) CU landing gear undergoing soil tests while attached to another
    aircraft R to L.
18) CU D0-335 on open outside test stand with propeller spinning.
19) CU two men compiling data from recording instrument panel.
20) CU interior of large hangar where the D0-335 landing gear is
    undergoing hydraulic and electrical tests.
21) CU wooden pilot dummy sitting outside on a catapult ejection seat.
22) MS test seat, dummy and the various recording instruments.
23) MS high speed as dummy is ejected, goes into the air, and lands on
    straw in the rear of the catapult device (text explains that the
    behavior of the D0-335 on landings was studied by tests on scale
    model.
24) CU RV of small model D0-335 (about 4 feet long) as it is launched
    from a powder-propelled launcher close to runway. This scale
    aircraft goes into air about 6 feet and makes a perfect landing
    (these are also high speed recordings).
25) CU SV of same scale D0-335 as it is launched again, camera follows
    its flight from time it leaves launcher until it belly lands on
    runway.
26) CU interior factory where four civilians are looking over a
    partially constructed fuselage of D0-335. Camera gives several
    different views as workers assemble the various parts of D0-335.

 Reel 2:
 1) 3/4 RV of D0-335 being pushed, tail first, out of large hangar by
    group of civilians.
 2) 3/4 RV of D0-335 propped on steel stands on runway.
 3) CU this is the last ground test of aircraft landing gear; they
    lower and raise several times.
 4) FV of same as group of civilians stand close by and observe how
    aircraft landing gears operate.
 5) CU as man climbs ladder to the partially open front engine and
    adjusts something.
 6) MSV D0-335 on runway.
 7) CU tail section of aircraft as the three-blade rear propeller
    spins.
 8) CU middle part of D0-335 as man sits in open cockpit and makes
    acceleration tests. Several repeat shots of rear and front
    sections of parked aircraft.
 9) 3/4 FV as mechanics work and make final adjustments on aircraft
    (text in German says "Aircraft First Flight").
10) MS's D0-335 as several workers push and align aircraft in proper
    place on runway.
11) ECU group of civilians talking to each other, included are some
    Nazi hand salutes.
12) MSV of parked aircraft as test pilot walks up to ladder and climbs
    into cockpit; group of civilians and few military watch.
13) MSV as plane fires up -- both propellers spin and aircraft taxis
    L to R.
14) Camera follows aircraft as it taxis in all directions over the
    runway and open grassy field.
15) LS of same aircraft taxiing, comes towards camera, turns and
    takes off by ground camera R to L.
16) Aerials of D0-335, camera ship maneuvers in order to get good
    top, side, and rear view of D0-335 in flight. Continuation of
    same -- more side views and a few peel-offs.
17) MSV aircraft flies low over hangars and buildings R to L
    (German text explains that D0-335 can fly well with rear engine
    alone).
18) MSV D0-335 in flight L to R as front propeller stops spinning
    and aircraft continues to fly with rear pusher propeller alone.
    Continuation of same.
19) AS's, front and RV's of D0-335.
20) Aerial fly bys.
21) LS D0-335 coming in for a landing -- aircraft flies low over
    houses R to L; flies low past camera and in next scene lands on
    runway in front of camera.
22) CU pilot in cockpit.

    Good (Basic: Mas Pos Pic)

[Smut]

I seem to recall seeing some of these reports still on file in the Pax River library a couple of years ago; not sure if they are still there however as I think they moved the library to another building since.

One report I remember in particuliar was on the Zero that was found in Alaska just after Midway; that aircraft was brought to Pax River and extensively tested.

-Smut