perhaps an alternative to plane disablement

[ace31st]

excellent post dok.

couldnt agree with you more:aok

[Buzzz]

Exactly right, if there are limits on how many planes can up from fields you also have to allow "safety zones" by designating certain home base fields that can not be porked, captured, and have no aircraft limits.  You wouldn't want paying customers to log in and not be able to get a ride.  

DokGonZo are you the same one from Air Warrior?  If so, then I remember you as one of the esteemed old timers from there.  You saw that system work.  We deedn't need no stinkeen ENY back in the day.  There was a designated battleground on the map and all the countries fought for control of that central area.  If you had your back against the wall you still had a fighting chance because your side was more concentrated.  

The thing this game cries out for is some kind of logistics model.  The further you get from home the more difficult the going should get.  


-Buzzz

[DoKGonZo]

Case in point ... I just looked in on the MA ... odds are 151:135:123 ... Rooks being 123. On the surface, this would appear to be a minor Bishop advantage. But the Rooks are down to about 30 fields and if you look at the map, there isn't a red dar bar more than half a sector wide anywhere else but along the Rook front. So effectively Rooks are outnumbered 2:1 - but get no advantage from ENY or perk discounts.

Which not only shows the fault in the system, but also shows just how interested in "fair play" some folks really were when they supported the ENY balancer. Truce Warriors get their wish - Rooks get their planes porked when they have numbers, and get double-teamed when they don't by truce weanies who don't take a heavy ENY penalty.

Well  done.


Being made to fly planes I didn't want to didn't bother me ... but seeing people blatantly abuse the code HT put in to make things fairer for THEM does.

The ENY balancer combined with perk discounts is "ok" in concept ... but the logic to determine when to apply it, where to apply it, and with how much force is completely missing.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Buzzz
....

DokGonZo are you the same one from Air Warrior?  

...

The one and only ... fortunately.

[Excaliber]

IT'S NOT WORKING AND IT IS A REAL PAIN!!!!!!!!!!Please revert to the original patch and find another way to settle the imbalance issue before I am forced to log out for good.

[2Hawks]

And Seek to Add my Voice here. I am Way pissed and Hot.

I have some very valid points to make
Hear this out. I am not normally upset by much in the game, but this one has be way frustrated.

Roster:
Bish 90 some, Knight 110, Rook, about 70 Odd.

Bish had about 120 fields or so, KNight he around 70 and Rooks about 23.

See the issue so far? Knights had more players, but were restricted in the planes they could fly, The Bish had more bases, and no restrictions, the Rook could fly anything they wanted and it was cheap to do so.

Heres my questions;

What good are perk points if you cannot fly the plane you paid for? What good is the "Balancing Effect" of ENY when it clearly does not balance the game in regard to base capture. As far as preventing capture it has done a splendid job. Has anyone noted a map reset that is NOT done by Skuzzy Every Friday? I havent been there 24/7, so my knowledge of this event is lacking.

My Suggestion;

Tie ENY to the number of fighter Hangers up at any one field. If you have only one fighter Hanger up at say A38, you can only up Fighters at A38 with a 20 ENY or greater, only 2 fighter Hangers up, 10 ENY or greater. only 3 up, 7 ENY, 4 hangers, 5 ENY. At least you would then have the option of upping from a remote field. This would fix ppl upping an LA7 at the last minute to Nail the C-47, give greater meaning to protecting your field, make dropping a Fighter Hanger have more signifigance. And not to mention, I can then use my perks.

Overall, if the obove suggestions are to hard to implement, then remove ENY or Remove Perks. Having both is self-defeating.

It's been a great Game, and I will keep flying, for now. I am sure HTC is tearing his hair out over the whines, But this is REALLY Frustrating. Frustrating Enough to call it a bug methinks.

IT's PORKED.

[SFCHONDO]

DOK...I agree with what you are saying. makes alot of sense. The new system rearly effect me do to the fact I mainly fly high ENY planes.

To me, it is the community that should address the numbers issue NOT HT. I have noticed the numbers being closer lately. (excluding the typical 3-4 hr period on sunday night) I am not convinced it's due to people changing sides to even the numbers. I believe it's more due to them logging off. Seems as though not as many people playing the game these days.

As you stated in a previous post about the numbers on tonight. Rook were out numbered and there probably weren't 20 total Bish and knits fighting up North. As you stated both of those countries were slamming the Rooks in hopes for a reset. Which is understandable. It's just part of the way the game is.

Numbers always change through out the day. Sometimes your country has the advantage and other times your busting your tail to just survive. Like i said earlier, this system doesn't really effect me, but I do understand those that point out that no one should be forced to move to a different country just to be able to fly a certian plane.

I applaud HT for his effort to help balance the MA. Sometimes change works and other times is doesn't. Unfortuantely this idea is not working to make the game a more enjoyable place to be. Bottom line, the community should try to even the counties out, NOT HT.

Hawk, I can't really agree on your idea. mainly because the ones that are going to be effected the most is the county that is being swarmed. If your country is way outnumbered and getting pounded. Your idea will just make it that much harder for them to defend. The go pork the FH's so they can't up certian planes idea is very bad IMO. I wish HT would actually make killing barracks 100 times harder. As it is now 1 plane makes 1 staffing pass and poof no troops. To often I have seen troops disabled 4 -5 fields back from the front lines by some dweebs that have nothing better to do. I don't have a problem with them porking troops so as to slow the enemy advance. But let's be realistic shooting 10 bullets at the barracks and it's diabled is rediculious. Should make it so it's a very hard thing to do, not a very easy thing.

[DoKGonZo]

You know what this idea will produce? Vultures will hit all but one FH and then feast on A6M2's and Hurri I's. Remember the mindset you're dealing with.


Also, limiting field launch capacity will not be consistently useful. Some maps have fields spaced pretty close together, so clamping the launch rate wouldn't affect much. Some maps are more spread out so clamping would mean a lot of people can't use the only field within 2 sectors of the next nearest airfield to attack.


The ENY/Perk method can work ... there have been plenty of ideas posted that would be fair and relatively easy to implement. But the current incarnation isn't leveling odds, and is only really punishing one country while the other two take advantage of it.

That being said, the fact that this change hasn't affected the odds indicates that the problem may be something more specific to the community than the game.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by SFCHONDO
... I wish HT would actually make killing barracks 100 times harder. As it is now 1 plane makes 1 staffing pass and poof no troops. To often I have seen troops disabled 4 -5 fields back from the front lines by some dweebs that have nothing better to do. I don't have a problem with them porking troops so as to slow the enemy advance. But let's be realistic shooting 10 bullets at the barracks and it's diabled is rediculious. Should make it so it's a very hard thing to do, not a very easy thing.

Hehe ... I suggested this same thing and was accused by Certain People of wanting to do away with strat entirely.

[twitchy]

I don't think limiting the number of planes that can up from a certain field would be a good idea as this would be a criticl blow to missions. I like missions, missions good!

[2Hawks]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
You know what this idea will produce? Vultures will hit all but one FH and then feast on A6M2's and Hurri I's. Remember the mindset you're dealing with.

 

Lol, Already Happens. If your stupid enough to try and up from a vulched field you deserve the death.  At least if would give more purpose to downing a FH.  My proposal would also be a bit more realistic. Overrun fields often had shortages of spare parts (Meaning Flyable AC) as well as short Fuel, Ord, Etc.

Originally posted by DoKGonZo


Also, limiting field launch capacity will not be consistently useful. Some maps have fields spaced pretty close together, so clamping the launch rate wouldn't affect much. Some maps are more spread out so clamping would mean a lot of people can't use the only field within 2 sectors of the next nearest airfield to attack.

 

Also Realistic. As a compromise, what of the proposal to limit the number of planes launched per minute?

Originally posted by DoKGonZo

The ENY/Perk method can work ... there have been plenty of ideas posted that would be fair and relatively easy to implement. But the current incarnation isn't leveling odds, and is only really punishing one country while the other two take advantage of it.

 

Agreed, it's porked IMHO. Lets please do away with it.

Personally, this has been causing me to log out of the MA early, to play Chuck Yeagers Air Combat   , and have a LOT more fun...

[2Hawks]

Originally posted by twitchy
I don't think limiting the number of planes that can up from a certain field would be a good idea as this would be a criticl blow to missions. I like missions, missions good!

Thats the whole point...

Read your Email at POTW tard!

[AWCHKRS]

Originally posted by Jasta
I think the simplest way to do it is to use the AW system and limit the amount of planes that can up from a Large, Medium, Small base at one time.

You spread out the fight, make it harder for the horde to solidify, and let everybody fly their own plane.

Better yet, you can still use a percentage system to keep the fights open. for instance:

(80 Rooks)
Max Large AF = 20
Max Medium AF = 13
Max Small AF = 8

(60 Bish)
Max Large AF = 30
Max Medium AF = 20
Max Small AF = 16

or something to that effect.
So even it the Rooks are pushing a small AF from a large AF, the bish can still up 16 planes to take down the max 20. I think it could work.

   Justa ,
 Of all the threads on the ( socalled )  balancing of a war game ,
 your Idea is the best one ! ! It seemed worked in AirWarrior very cool .
 
  CHECKERS

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Case in point ... I just looked in on the MA ... odds are 151:135:123 ... Rooks being 123. On the surface, this would appear to be a minor Bishop advantage. But the Rooks are down to about 30 fields and if you look at the map, there isn't a red dar bar more than half a sector wide anywhere else but along the Rook front. So effectively Rooks are outnumbered 2:1 - but get no advantage from ENY or perk discounts.

True, but this is a "snapshot" of a particular point in time. There are many other "snapshots" that could be brought forth that show something completely different.

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Which not only shows the fault in the system, but also shows just how interested in "fair play" some folks really were when they supported the ENY balancer. Truce Warriors get their wish - Rooks get their planes porked when they have numbers, and get double-teamed when they don't by truce weanies who don't take a heavy ENY penalty.

Well  done.


Being made to fly planes I didn't want to didn't bother me ... but seeing people blatantly abuse the code HT put in to make things fairer for THEM does.

This could be construed as a "Rook Whine". Your not gonna get much sympathy for the Rooks state of affairs due to the drubbing that they have put upon the MA for that last six months or more. What I have noticed, since the ENY disabler has gone into effect, is that the Rook Horde is somewhat non-existent, neutered, or both. That, in and of itself is good.

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The ENY balancer combined with perk discounts is "ok" in concept ... but the logic to determine when to apply it, where to apply it, and with how much force is completely missing.

I am somewhat surprised to not see more tweaking of the ENY disabler. I do agree that it needs some more and as you stated before, there have been some good ideas brought forth that could add to and enhance it and make it better for all.

What are your ideas on "when", "where", and "how" ?

I don't know about anybody else, but I have seen a greater mixture of aircraft flying around ... more diverse than I have seen it in over a year or more.

The ENY disabler has forced me to look at other planes due to the fact that it can reach a point to where the P-38 and/or the Spit V is disabled (OH THE HORROR !!!).

I am loving the P-47-D25 (ENY 35) and probably wouldn't have tried this monster unless the ENY disabler made me think about it.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by 2Hawks
Lol, Already Happens. If your stupid enough to try and up from a vulched field you deserve the death.  At least if would give more purpose to downing a FH.  My proposal would also be a bit more realistic. Overrun fields often had shortages of spare parts (Meaning Flyable AC) as well as short Fuel, Ord, Etc.
...

Yeah, but extend the current troop porking behavior to your proposal. You'd have 3/4 of all FH's all along a sector of the front porked with no real intention of base capture. It is, afterall, easier to get kills if you reduce the other side to 4th-line fighters and de-ack their fields than it is to roll a C47 to the city.


But until the logic is in place to determine whether a country is at a disadvantage or not, the rest of the discussion is meaningless. Once you have that, then Horde Warrior and Truce Warrior become harder games to play. Number of players, number of fields, in-combat odds versus in-flight odds - the datapoints you need are all right there. If ENY and perk values were modified based on an equation that incorporated these, the whole system would work a lot better.


I still don't see why this needed to be "fixed" at all, though. The "game" we play really hasn't changed in almost 20 years.