What's your take?

[Terror]

The Patriot Act is one of the worst abuses of individual rights since the McCarthy era.  Hell, I would even put the Patriot Act on par with the internment of American Citizens with Japanese heritage during WWII.  Anytime full "checks and balances" are bypassed, as the Patriot Act allows, is a horrible abuse of the spirit of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

My $.02

Terror

[DoctorYO]

This is all the abuse I need to see to be against the patriot act...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/05/24/spain.bombings.lawyer.ap/


I have no problem with the patirot act as long as heads roll when its misused.. but instead we have this...

"and the FBI expressed regret for a fingerprint-identification error that led to his arrest."

what the hell does regret have to do with heads rolling..   case closed...

Note that report was the watered down cnn.com report...

theres better on the web; google his name youll see what im talking about..

This story borderlines contempt for the constitution becuase even when there was high credibility the initial analysis was wrong they still denied this man his constitiutional rights protected by the bill of rights..

All involved their heads and retirement and anything else they invested in their careers should be taken..

If they have disagreement with that then i suggest themselves or their favorite  family member should be put thru the same guantlet with the same stress and  duress that this man and his family went thru do to their religeous beliefs..

any rebuttal..?


DoctorYo

[anonymous]

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=11180
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12801

[Sandman]

Originally posted by anonymous
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=11180
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12801

Rep. Peter King, R-NY, is a member of the House Homeland Security Committee. Ed Koch was New York City mayor, 1978-1989. What a surprise! A republican disagrees.

The problem is, the House passed it with a vote of 357-66, and it flew through the Senate with a vote of 98 to 1. Either both Republicans and Democrats suddenly stopped caring about civil liberties, or the bill isn’t all that bad.

Or... three... the dip****s didn't bother to read it.

[narsus]

Live in NY here, anyone watch the footage of the protestors last night...looked more like the LA riots than a protest march.

Nothing major, but a few bad apples we just beating the crap out of each other and causing problems for the police.

[-MZ-]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Weigh the percentage of legal action they take with a liberal bent against that with a conservative bent.

The fact that conservative religious nuts try to use political office and government powers to spread their Jesusism often brings them into conflict with the ACLU.

[Sandman]

Is Jesusism actually a word?

[AKIron]

I read that article twice and found nothing regarding the Patriot Act, abuse or otherwise. What does a fingerprint misidentification have to do with the Patriot Act?

Originally posted by DoctorYO
This is all the abuse I need to see to be against the patriot act...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/05/24/spain.bombings.lawyer.ap/


I have no problem with the patirot act as long as heads roll when its misused.. but instead we have this...

"and the FBI expressed regret for a fingerprint-identification error that led to his arrest."

what the hell does regret have to do with heads rolling..   case closed...

Note that report was the watered down cnn.com report...

theres better on the web; google his name youll see what im talking about..

This story borderlines contempt for the constitution becuase even when there was high credibility the initial analysis was wrong they still denied this man his constitiutional rights protected by the bill of rights..

All involved their heads and retirement and anything else they invested in their careers should be taken..

If they have disagreement with that then i suggest themselves or their favorite  family member should be put thru the same guantlet with the same stress and  duress that this man and his family went thru do to their religeous beliefs..

any rebuttal..?


DoctorYo

[AKIron]

Originally posted by -MZ-
The fact that conservative religious nuts try to use political office and government powers to spread their Jesusism often brings them into conflict with the ACLU.

Yeah, but thank... er... be glad the ACLU is on the job ensuring those subversive nativity scenes don't spoil our holiday... er... winter vacations.

[DoctorYO]

I read that article twice and found nothing regarding the Patriot Act, abuse or otherwise. What does a fingerprint misidentification have to do with the Patriot Act?

well if you took the time to google like i said you would have seen that the patriot act was used initially to sneak and peak this families home..  Then upon finding this man's son or daughters spanish class homework they then made the connection of spanish and spanish bombing.(what no spanish translators on hand wtf..) (bolstered by his magic fingerprint which was a computer image that got smudged)  Which then was used to take this man into custody under provisions of the anti terrorism patriot act..  he had no counsel.. he was told numerous times he was the guilty and was going down..(this is a american citizen i might add.. a member of the BAR and former commissioned officer of the US army, that didn't matter patirot act wins)  he was kept under constant duress (if this man was a terrorist i have no problem with the duress but again like abu garib the numbskulls didn't check the facts kind of like 15 year old goat herder boys being sodomized..) (but wait i bet you think that didn't happen either and is liberal propaganda) (do a google on that too..)

The spanish authorities on numerous occasions claimed to the USA that this was the wrong man.. and their analysis of the fingerprint was leading to a man from algeria.. The spainards were rebuffed.. The twits ignored the advice and continued with the duress of this man and his family..(see they were wrong and were digging for anything to save their careers is my opinion of why they continued to hold him..)  Then the press got a hold of it and published what happened; under pressure they finally released him after 2 weeks of incarceration and duress..

Don't worry we will hear the facts soon in a civil court of law.. And this Mayfield is taking off the gloves with a powerhouse lawyer familiar with these types of cases and a amazing win record in pursuing them..

" Spence has won all his criminal cases and has not lost a civil lawsuit since 1969."

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=70524


Now if you too lazy to fact check what i just said (like my initial advice to google this man's name..) then im debating a houseplant..

Use your brain and use the power given to you by the power of the internet..  you cant go wrong..



DoctorYo

[AKIron]

Originally posted by DoctorYO
Now if you too lazy to fact check what i just said (like my initial advice to google this man's name..) then im debating a houseplant..

Use your brain and use the power given to you by the power of the internet..  you cant go wrong..



DoctorYo

OK, dunno why you didn't support your claim with one of those links but I did a search and found this at MSNBC:

"According to court documents, FBI agents began their surveillance of Mayfield two weeks after the attacks in the Spanish capital. Under a provision of the U.S. Patriot Act, they entered his home without his knowledge — but aroused the family’s suspicion by bolting the wrong lock on their way out and leaving a footprint on the rug that didn’t match any family members."

Are you suggesting that the FBI could not perform a search of the home of a suspected terrorist without the Patriot Act? Had the Patriot Act never been written do you think there is a judge that would not have authorized this search? Is the search what you are objecting to or are you just feeling indignant because the man was falsely (mistakenly) accused? The FBI did admit their mistake rather than falsify evidence and making the guy and his family disappear such as happens even today in many countries.

[Munkii]

Originally posted by AKIron
"According to court documents, FBI agents began their surveillance of Mayfield two weeks after the attacks in the Spanish capital. Under a provision of the U.S. Patriot Act, they entered his home without his knowledge — but aroused the family’s suspicion by bolting the wrong lock on their way out and leaving a footprint on the rug that didn’t match any family members."

The fact that this can happen at all, judges consent/patriot act or not makes my skin crawl.  A warranted search should always involve at least one adult in the house should be present.

[Eagler]

They are protesting that today is Wednesday ...

talk about a bunch of wimpy looking losers  ....they take vacation from work/school to sit in the street or are they full time complainers - LOL

[DoctorYO]

Are you suggesting that the FBI could not perform a search of the home of a suspected terrorist without the Patriot Act?

Your trying your patented put words in someone else mouth tactic while usually effective on these boards.. This Bill O Faux news tactic is weak and feeble  I never said that.. or suggested it..  you interpreted wrong..

To answer your question/interpretation its called a search warrant..  But under terror provisions you dont need one.. (patriot act)


The initial hit (fingerprint) was justification under the patriot act to do a sneak and peak.. while i dont agree with the patriot act (no checks and balances) they were following the letter of the law ..  patriot act law that is..

Now my problem with this case is not just the fingerprint its the whole blown contempt for the bill of rights when they found out they were wrong.. (again do your homework )

And on a futher note..  look at the  investegator of the fingerprint,  you read the article right? i will spoon feed it for you again..

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=70524

youll see this..

 "Court records show that retired FBI agent John Massey, who worked on the Madrid case, was reprimanded three times for errors between 1969 and 1974, including twice for false fingerprint identifications, The Seattle Times reported in June."

 Here you have agent who has a pattern of deceit (note a pattern this is his 3 strike..)  Where were the checks and balances.  how do have two reprimands and still have your job..  I never worked for the FBI so i dont know their internal policy but in the military reprimands were career enders.. you would not get promoted most likely. (hence ending your career.)(my opinion negligence any way you look at it....  even if he did his job right why would you taint your case with this type of publicity that this gentlemen has generated in the past.. who knows but if the cases in detroit are any example it seems like DOJ SOP... incompetent comes to mind..half arsed or just plain dumb..

What about the spanish conclusions..  What about FBI's rebuff to those conclusions..  what about knowing your wrong or their is problem and doing nothing about becuase hey "its not me who cares"

This pitbull lawyer Spence you will soon see in action.. If you know anything about law you know this guy..  and he doesn't take easy cases to pad his stats.. he takes tough cases and as a result he knows his stuff.. This case is pretty cut and dry negligence at a mimimum and contempt or fraud at a maximum...

we will all have to watch and see how this resolves..


I like this comment..

The FBI did admit their mistake rather than falsify evidence and making the guy and his family disappear such as happens even today in many countries.

Thats what seperates the USA from other lesser nations..  and the patriot act (as is with no checks and balances) is a precusor to such treatment and tyranny you describe.. (you have read patriot act 2 right...? )



DoctorYo

[AKIron]

Originally posted by DoctorYO
Thats what seperates the USA from other lesser nations..  and the patriot act (as is with no checks and balances) is a precusor to such treatment and tyranny you describe.. (you have read patriot act 2 right...? )



DoctorYo

Yes, I have read some of it, you?

I guess you'll agree that the Democrats were very heavy handed and repressive in locking up protesters and denying Al-Jazeera their right to report then?