Author Topic: Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please  (Read 6191 times)

Offline glenmorangie

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2004, 07:36:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fruda
Hey Kweassa... That looks much more realistic than the garish burnt red/yellow combination.

I'd love to see that one.


And just as I was about to add the sequins!

Seriously, look at the site straffo sent and not how close the 'new' versions of the colors are to what I started with...


 I'll do some work on it this weekend.  Oh, < he said, back of hand to forehead >, The abuse!!! :)

Offline Fruda

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2004, 08:14:45 PM »
It's not your fault that the source was inaccurate. I've had some Merlin engine sounds for my new pack that sounded suspiciously like DC3's (luckily, I found a hi-res Merlin pack that's REAL, like my other engine sounds).

Offline glenmorangie

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2004, 09:39:18 PM »
I reproduced the colors from the website straffo provided using their rgb values for both the new and faded versions of the colors.

Here's how they compare to the chips provided by Mr. Pilawskii:



The FS numbers for the paints on the sites match Pilawskii's exactly - they probably got them from him.  The difference in color is due to?

New colors in Pilawskii's chips are a little brighter, but not a great deal...

I'll do a couple of versions and see how they come out.  You've got to admit the faded dark brown looks strange, too.

Offline Reschke

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2004, 10:52:00 PM »
the brown in the middle selection looks almost pink to me but hey what do I know my wife just has her degree in interior design and has me looking at paint colors 7 days a week. Geez I wish I liked my job half as much as she likes hers.
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Offline glenmorangie

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2004, 06:45:41 AM »
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Originally posted by Reschke
the brown in the middle selection looks almost pink to me...


It looks very pink to me on my home monitor, here at work it is much more brown.  Here, only the blue of the original colors is irridescent, the light and dark browns ( Pilawskii and web site ) are almost indistinguishable.

I did not color-correct my montor at home, because it should only make a difference when comparing to external chips.  I'll play with that this weekend, too.

Maybe the display on other folks monitors is showing the colors brighter, too.

I think I'll turn the light off in AH and see what it looks like.  The fuselage in the top shot is a much different color than the wings, which comes from the lighting in the game.

Offline Reschke

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2004, 10:16:55 AM »
Different computer setup here at work and that middle brown still appears pink. I see a huge resemblance to mustard in the Pilawski yellow chip as well.
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Offline glenmorangie

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2004, 09:47:26 PM »
Thanks to all of you for your help.

Here is the next iteration, opinions, please!

The wings have been repainted with the colors from the web site provided by straffo.  This looks much closer to the picture provided by Kweassa.

The ailerons and fuselage have not been changed, for contrast.  The sand color looks very much like the one from the web site in photoshop, but is much brighter here.  AHII lighting greatly affects the color, as you can see.

Weathering on both colors is a mix of the original and faded colors from the web-site with cloud rendering.  

The web-site brown and the original brown are very close.  When the base colors look about right, I'l redo the controls.  The weathering also looks very good in PS and is washed out here.

Thanks again for the help!





Offline Fruda

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2004, 10:36:47 PM »
Needs more weathering, dirt, and grime to make it look more Russian. Other than that, it's perfect.

Offline TBolt A-10

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2004, 01:54:56 AM »
I wish I hadn't seen this thread.  It would've been more fun to have unexpectedly bumped into this plane in the skies of the MA.  I'm sure I would have had to scratch my eyes to be sure that I saw what I thought I saw.  :lol  :)

Looks cool!


Which Yak is that going to be for?

« Last Edit: September 12, 2004, 01:57:15 AM by TBolt A-10 »

Offline glenmorangie

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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2004, 09:28:24 AM »
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Originally posted by Fruda
Needs more weathering, dirt, and grime to make it look more Russian. Other than that, it's perfect.


Oddly enough, the photos of Russian birds look cleaner than the others.  I found one good photo of the exhaust pattern, more work to do there, controls, fueslage and weathering.

Ah, well, maybe *next* weekend...

Thanks!

Offline glenmorangie

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2004, 09:29:53 AM »
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Originally posted by TBolt A-10
I wish I hadn't seen this thread.  It would've been more fun to have unexpectedly bumped into this plane in the skies of the MA.  I'm sure I would have had to scratch my eyes to be sure that I saw what I thought I saw.  :lol  :)

Looks cool!


Which Yak is that going to be for?



It's for a Yak-9M, acutally.  Since we don't have one of those, I'm hoping HT will let us use it in the MA.

THere should be an earlier post with all the information...

Offline GuyNoir

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2004, 01:01:17 PM »
I hate to say this since it might mean more work of the tedious kind, but it looks like all of the panel lines are the reddish-brown color of the camo.  Wouldn't they be grey or whatever color's under the panelling?

Offline glenmorangie

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2004, 06:15:39 PM »
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Originally posted by GuyNoir
I hate to say this since it might mean more work of the tedious kind, but it looks like all of the panel lines are the reddish-brown color of the camo.  Wouldn't they be grey or whatever color's under the panelling?


Actually, not very tedious because the lines are a separate layer, so colors can be changed easily separately from the background.  However, if you look at photos, the lines 'look' black, but they actually are a dark contrasting color of the base color.  Black and gray panel lines will look good on blue, green ( in some cases ), silver and gray airplanes but do not look right on brown ones.

What you are seeing is panel lines at 100% transparency, which means as dark as they get.  I did not tone them down to make the detail easy to see.  As they become more transparent, they will look more like variations of the background color.

Thanks!  I hope to have another proof next weekend.  Hopefully, the panel lines will fade into the background and be visible, but not stark.

Offline Kweassa

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2004, 10:02:36 PM »
glenmorangie. the colors are still way too strong in contrast. Like I mentioned when I upped the pics, the color chips provided by internet cannot be always trusted.

 This is because most of the people who do the research are either modellers, or base their basic color samples on real life paint. They take pictures and analyze the sample under real light conditions - which makes things look pretty different compared to the simplified, virtual lighting in AH.

 Thus, in my own experience, I had to adjust lots of colors to make things look right when making skins for the LW birds. In many cases the suggested colors for the RLM in the net, would just not look right. So, in cases where the colors of an actual model, or a profile pic conflicted with the RLM colors info, I chose to go with profile drawings.

 I have no doubt if a real life paint is mixed as in the 'color chip', and applied to a real Yak, it'd look pretty different than compared to the AH Yak with that same colors.

 
 Here's a pic to suggest what I think would be correct colors: the top part is the original, and the underpart is suggested.



Offline glenmorangie

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Yak-9 Southern Front, Opinions Please
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2004, 07:44:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
glenmorangie. the colors are still way too strong in contrast. Like I mentioned when I upped the pics, the color chips provided by internet cannot be always trusted.

 This is because most of the people who do the research are either modellers, or base their basic color samples on real life paint. They take pictures and analyze the sample under real light conditions - which makes things look pretty different compared to the simplified, virtual lighting in AH.


There's no doubt modelling makes you strange... and I agree that the virtual lighting in AH presents challenges.  What you see in PS is not what shows up in AH.  I've had the same problem with the weathering, which looks great in PS, but does not show up in AH.


Quote
Thus, in my own experience, I had to adjust lots of colors to make things look right when making skins for the LW birds. In many cases the suggested colors for the RLM in the net, would just not look right. So, in cases where the colors of an actual model, or a profile pic conflicted with the RLM colors info, I chose to go with profile drawings.


Which, of course is the essence of 'scale effect' on color, it's just much more noticeable here.  Over time, I've tried to stop arguing about 'accuracy', because the only reliable reference is an actual photograph and the guy who painted the airplane, and there are problems with both of those ( memory fades, photos don't print in true color, etc. ).  I've obviously not entirely succeeded.


Quote
I have no doubt if a real life paint is mixed as in the 'color chip', and applied to a real Yak, it'd look pretty different than compared to the AH Yak with that same colors.
 
 Here's a pic to suggest what I think would be correct colors: the top part is the original, and the underpart is suggested.


I'm really making an effort to overcome my 'institutional arrogance', in that the paint chip 'must be' right, which is one of the reasons I asked for help.  One factor is there is a style ( for streaks, dirt and panel lines, and so forth ) that folks are used to looking at in AH which may bear no resemblance to reality, so some concessions must be made to style to 'make it look right' as well as to compensate for scale effect and the AH lighting.  It's a difficult adjustment to make.

And I've still got to deal with the paint feathering and several other problems not related to the shade of paint.

By the time we get this one adjusted, it should be a pretty neat skin.  Then we can work on the Green/Dark Green scheme! ( and eventually, On to the standard Green/Black and all the neat non-standard -9T stuff )

Thanks so much for taking the time provide another example.  I should have adjustments by the end of the weekend.