Author Topic: UK Navy to use Windows for Warships (Read 732 times)

Skuzzy · « **Reply #15 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:00:28 PM »

fdski, I have worked for companies like that. I do not envy your position and fully understand exactly what you are going through.

Out of the box, UNIX is easy to hack into. But, it can be made far more bulletproof than Windows if you have a good UNIX guy on it.

Good luck there fdski.

Saurdaukar · « **Reply #16 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:06:33 PM »

I hate acrobat. Hate.

straffo · « **Reply #17 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:22:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
So many people are moving to coding in Java now-a-days too. They actually replaced C and C++ courses in atleast one school's curriculum with Java classes. Scary that the trend is towards bloatware and uber-slow programs.
-SW

Hey I've seen perfect bloatware made in C/C++

And a feked uber-slow program made in assembleur ...

All is in the coder not in the tool
It remind me a sentence a teacher said about the OOP :

Before your needed to code your bugs now you can inherit them.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #18 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:31:29 PM »

Yeah, but I meant bloatware minus the programmers. It doesn't matter who programs in Java, it takes way more power to process than would the same application written in C/C++.

No matter how stream line you make Java, its still not going to be as fast as streamlined C/C++/Assembly.
-SW

bikekil · « **Reply #19 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:34:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
OT: Java on UNIX is sort of like mixing water and oil fdski. I do not envy you and wonder about a company that would use Java on UNIX (actually on anything..but let's save that for another discussion).

Back on topic, between UNIX and Windows, I would trust UNIX a lot more than Windows for anything critical.

Sun would be the company mixing unix and java, on their "bios free" machines

Java sucks and is a security risk while allowed on web browsers, but it's just the nature of anything that can controll your stuff.

straffo · « **Reply #20 on:** September 07, 2004, 04:43:10 PM »

hmmmm .... depend of the software

A software using the API a lot and tons of RPC call can be slow whatever language is used.

It's allways ,a compromise between the raw performances and the ease of developpement/maintenance.

I usualy code in C++ recently I had to make a software really fast (less than 1 week).
As this software was mostly UI ,I used C# because it's easy to use and debug plus I needed train myself.

If we look at this software with a profiler it's likely that a C++ version will be faster but only between the call to the API ie : where there is almost no code

.

Flyboy · « **Reply #21 on:** September 07, 2004, 05:02:47 PM »

i just had a week ago the 2nd (out of 4) classification to "boot camp" in the IAF as a future pilot. and guess what they use windows

any chance one of you guys hack in to it and send me the questions in advance?

dont worry ill put a good word for you if the mossad gets you.

well anyone? skuzzy?

Skuzzy · « **Reply #22 on:** September 07, 2004, 05:07:46 PM »

And there are very few places where C++ cannot be outdone using C.

All languages have a purpose or a place where they will shine. C is probably the best multi-purpose language there is.

C++/C# both suffer from the compilers and how constructs must be placed onto the stack, even when only one element is needed.

Sun created Java as a WEB tool, not as a general language. But PHP will run circles around most WEB based Java implementations.
--

A bad programmer can make any language look bad, but even a great programmer would have a hard time making Java look better than a comparable C/C++ program.

AKIron · « **Reply #23 on:** September 07, 2004, 06:34:40 PM »

Run XP on solid hardware without adding a bunch of crap software and it's pretty stable.

United · « **Reply #24 on:** September 07, 2004, 06:51:02 PM »

Hope they dont get a message similar to this one,

http://www.dc8p.34sp.com/pix/image.php?id=142

Pei · « **Reply #25 on:** September 07, 2004, 07:05:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Yeah, but I meant bloatware minus the programmers. It doesn't matter who programs in Java, it takes way more power to process than would the same application written in C/C++.

No matter how stream line you make Java, its still not going to be as fast as streamlined C/C++/Assembly.
-SW

You won't make it as fast in Java or as small a footpint, but you can certainly get it up and running quicker and make it more maintainable.

Pure computational performance is rarely the primary requirement in most business. The the main reason people move from C++ to Java: Java is easier, and has lots of standard components you don't have to build from scratch.

Most of the stuff I work on is bound by essentailly by I/O (usually access to DBs) and so the CPU performance doesn't make much difference. When I work on system software I tend to favour C or C++.

As Straffo said it 's about picking the right tools for the job.

I'm curious FD: what's so awful about Java on Unix?

Pei · « **Reply #26 on:** September 07, 2004, 07:14:44 PM »

Back on topic: my experience has been that a properly administered unix (or linux) box is more stable and more secure than a proerly administered windows box.

Of course good unxi sysadmins cost more than good windows sysadmins.

If I was running something that absolutely had to be stable and perform as required I'd run it on unix.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #27 on:** September 07, 2004, 08:32:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
OT: Java on UNIX is sort of like mixing water and oil fdski. I do not envy you and wonder about a company that would use Java on UNIX (actually on anything..but let's save that for another discussion).

Back on topic, between UNIX and Windows, I would trust UNIX a lot more than Windows for anything critical.

If it makes you feel any better Skuzzy FAA ATC's new RADAR/COM system is a network that utilizes Unix based workstations instead of huge bulky 1950s era CRTs

bikekil · « **Reply #28 on:** September 08, 2004, 02:31:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
Run XP on solid hardware without adding a bunch of crap software and it's pretty stable.

Far from trusting M$, but when you know how to administer it, when you use a group or local policy management, when you don't work as an admin all the time, don't use IE and so on, it's pretty secure.

I tell you, after working with lcamtuf, bulba, nises or cliph (use google

) i can tell you - saying that linux or unix is secure is like saying that Yeti exists

Unix requires moe knowledge (aka is not that easy) then Windows so in most cases administrators of the machines have better idea what to do.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #29 on:** September 08, 2004, 02:39:53 PM »

Bike, I have to deal with both platforms and find UNIX much easier to secure and manage than Windows.

Security aside, there is no way any version of Windows is more stable than a properly setup UNIX system. Especially if you are using multi-CPU's. A little memory leak, inherent in Windows, will insure it cannot be as stable.