Author Topic: HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?  (Read 1238 times)

Offline coyo

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 52
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« on: September 06, 2004, 08:25:29 PM »
the tails of my 109s sure look naked with no swastika  on 'em.
I had accepted the no Hakenkreuz  rule because I figured some people in some countries are offended by certain geometric shapes...
.....but then I downloaded the default 109G-2 skin:


Now obviously there are swastikas allowed on AH skins. So why not on custom skins?  
Please don't tell me that the blue swastika in a white circle in NOT a swastika--it is. It is also much more obvious than a plain old black one on a vert stab...

Thanks

Offline United

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2536
      • http://squadronspotlight.netfirms.com
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2004, 08:51:28 PM »
its not a swastika...:D

Ask the experts what its real name is, but its the Finnish Air Force markings.

Offline TBolt A-10

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1142
      • http://www.picturehangar.com
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2004, 09:26:31 PM »
Law in Germany forbids the German people from displaying the swastikas on anything - including images on the computer.  
(or, so I was told when I flew for the Luftwaffe in one of our scenarios)

Offline coyo

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 52
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2004, 09:30:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by United
its not a swastika...:D

Ask the experts what its real name is, but its the Finnish Air Force markings.


If it is not a swastika, why cant I copy it, make the blue part black, delete the white part and put in on a german plane? :D

Or better yet, If I left the white circle intact, and applied it as is to a white winter scheme on german plane, would it still not be a swastika? :D

Offline Octavius

  • Skinner Team
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6651
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2004, 09:57:57 PM »
It's a Von Rosen Kreuz (Cross).  Finland's first aircraft was given as a gift from Sweden.  It had this marking on it - the FAF adopted it as the official emblem of it's air force.  It is intended for good luck :)  Not a swastika
octavius
Fat Drunk BasTards (forum)

"bastard coated bastards with bastard filling?  delicious!"
Guest of the ++Blue Knights++[/size]

Offline Shane

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7422
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2004, 10:18:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by coyo
If it is not a swastika, why cant I copy it, make the blue part black, delete the white part and put in on a german plane? :D
Or better yet, If I left the white circle intact, and applied it as is to a white winter scheme on german plane, would it still not be a swastika? :D


illinois nazis...

:rolleyes:
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798

Offline Panzzer

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2890
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2004, 03:19:24 AM »
The Story of the Finnish Blue "Swastika"

The Finnish Air Force is one of the oldest independent air forces in the world, founded on the 6th of March 1918. At that time there was a civil war (aka the Freedom War) ongoing in Finland, the White Army fought against the Red Guards which aimed to creation of a socialist state of Finland - like the revolutional forces in Russia on the same time.

A Swedish count Erich von Rosen wanted to support the White Army and presented the first aeroplane - Thulin (Morane-Saulnier) Parasol - to it. The aircraft was flown from Sweden to Vaasa. Actually the first aircraft arrived to Pietarsaari from Sweden on the 26th of February, but it got engine failure and was delivered later to the White Army. The Chief Commanding Officer of the White Army, General C.G.E Mannerheim, named that Morane-Saulnier Parasol -fighter as the Finnish Air Forces aircraft number One.

Count Erich von Rosen was a notable expeditor who had used a swastika as a personal good luck symbol painted to his aircraft during his journeys in the Orient and he let the same symbol be painted to the given aifcraft. The blue, horizontal swastika became on the 18th of March 1918 the official insignia of the White Army aircrafts and when the Freedom War ended, the official national insignia of the Finnish Air Force. The same insignia was also used later on the Finnish Army armoured vehicles, for some misunderstandings at the beginning, some swastikas were painted mirrored, actually they should be painted clockwise.

The blue swastika was used in the Finnish Air Force until the Second World War ended and as You have now read, it has nothing to do with the Nazi symbol - tip pointed black swastika, which was actually a "party"-logo.

(This text is from Lentolaivue26.org).
Panzzer - Lentorykmentti 3

Offline jetb123

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1807
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2004, 03:21:25 AM »
Just put a big S  There to replace it. :D

Offline Stratocaster

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 741
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2004, 06:07:57 AM »
this has been talked about before. Are you just trying to provoke people?
Strat

∼<<∼Loose Deuce∼>>∼

Offline TexMurphy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1488
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2004, 07:12:32 AM »
For me as a noob who hasnt been around I was just about to ask this same question and fond the historical answer VERY interesting....

Tex

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2004, 07:51:46 AM »
If HT puts the swastika on any planes he "Legally" cuts out any players from germany.  

The swastika is black on a red background and is rotated 45 degrees.  It is quite a shame that hitler used this symbol, because it's the internation symbol for peace in all cultures.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline TexMurphy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1488
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2004, 08:05:08 AM »
Wasnt just the swastika that Hitler ripped off and buttered up.. he used alot of runes as well as "power symbols" totally out of context of their true meaning...

Offline SELECTOR

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2742
      • http://www.332viking.com
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2004, 09:48:43 AM »
im comming from the camp of i dont care weather they are allowed or not..they do represent evilscum and should be outlawed from political parties.. but for all historical things they should be allowed..(altered history is bad)..
as far as saying the finnish markings are not swastikas, well maybe they dont reprisent the same thing. But alas the are swastikas, for everyone who looks at them..

Offline SlapShot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9121
HTC: Since they already do, why cant skins have swastikas?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2004, 02:54:29 PM »
Y'all need to read this ...

Quote
Originally posted by lucull
Historical context is not enough.

The 2 exceptions are:

1. For historical ducumentation -> a computer game is no historical documentation
2. In a critical context -> not the case here, too

Conclusion, german players would risk to pay a fine or up to 3 years prison downloading the game.

This german law is very clear in what is allowed and what not and it includes any modifications of the swastika and symbols of forbidden organisations (SS, SA, ...), which people can recognize as swastika/symbol modification.

On the other hand, the swastika is one of the oldest symbols of human mankind and it's a shame that the Nazis misused it.

Germany is also not the only country where the swastika is forbidden.

Also, the allies have forbidden it in Germany in 1945.

If you click on the link you get an overview of forbidden symbols: http://www.rechts-nein-danke.de/kennzeichen.html
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."