Author Topic: b17 dogfight  (Read 734 times)

Offline rod367th

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b17 dogfight
« on: September 09, 2004, 03:47:47 AM »
"An Interesting Dog Fight"

October 23, 1942 was a typical day for American troops at Esprito Santo, but for the crew of a B-17 Flying Fortress it would become a most memorable day. Early that morning the Japanese began shelling the field. Lt. Ed Loberg, a former farm boy from Wisconsin, was ordered to take his B-17 up for a reconnaissance mission to determine where the Japanese guns may be located. Not finding anything they returned to the field. The brakes failed on the B-17 upon landing and they hit several parked Navy aircraft. Fortunately for Loberg's crew a 100 pound bomb dislodged in the crash did not explode. Later that day the crew boarded another B-17 and went hunting out to sea.

Around midday the crew noticed a PBY being attacked by a Kawanishi H6K "Mavis" flying boat. Diving the B-17 straight down, the Mavis and the Flying Fortress soon entered a rain squall. The windows were black with clouds and rain and the plane was buffeted by strong winds. Emerging from the squall at low altitude into blinding sunlight the B-17 emerged only fifty feet from their adversary. Immediately every gun on both aircraft began firing in a broadside exchange reminiscent of age old sailing ship battles. Thousands of bullets crisscrossed the narrow spread of air and the Fortress shuddered from the impact. Tracer bullets from the B-17 pelted the Mavis like darts with many ricocheting off its armor. The Mavis made a tight turn and Loberg turned inside him to avoid the mortal sting from the Mavis tail guns.

In and out of rain squalls this interesting dogfight continued for 45 minutes. The Mavis kept very close to the wave tops to protect its vulnerable under belly. Several times during the fight the Mavis disappeared for three or four minutes into clouds, but each time as it reemerged Loberg's B-1 7 resumed the attack. Twice the B-17 passed over the H6K so close that the jagged bullet holes in the Mavis and the round glasses on its two pilots could be seen clearly.

Finally, the Mavis began smoking and the Japanese plane dropped into the sea and exploded in a large ball of flame. In the words of Ira Wolfert, a war correspondent, who was on the flight, "During the duel, the Fort that I was on, with a bullet in one of its motors and two holes as big as Derby hats in its wings, made tight turns with half-rolls and banks past vertical. That is, it frequently stood against the sea on one wing like a ballet dancer balancing on one point and occasionally it went over even farther than that and started lifting its belly toward the sky in a desperate effort to keep the Japanese from turning inside it.

Throughout the entire forty-four minutes, the plane, one of the oldest being used in the war, ran at top speed, shaking and rippling all over like a skirt in a gale, so many inches of mercury being blown into its motors by the superchargers that the pilot and copilot, in addition to their other worries, had to keep an eye on the cowlings to watch for cylinder heads popping up through them." Others on Loberg's crew that day were B. Thurston the copilot, R. Spitzer the navigator, R. Mitchell the bombardier and E. Gustafson, E. Jung, G. Holbert, E. Smith and R Bufterbaugh who manned the guns during this unusual dogfight. Both Mitchell and Spitzer were wounded during the battle.

_____________________________ _____________________________ ______________________

Col. Edwin A Loberg was born in Tigertown, Wisconsin on February 20, 1915 and grew up on a dairy farm. Ed joined the Army Air Corps and was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the Spring of 1941. Based at Hickham Field in December 1941 he is a member of the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association. Ed flew approximately 90 combat missions in the Pacific with B-1 7's from bases ranging from Hawaii to Guadalcanal and New Guinea. In 1943 he was assigned as Squadron Commander of the 7691h Bomb Squadron of the 462nd BG. He flew another 40 missions in B-29's and piloted the lead pathfinder on the first B-29 attack on Japan. Ed's last posting was at Bolling Air Force Base as Executive Officer of Headquarter's Command and retired with a rank of Colonel. As a civilian with Martin Marietta he was involved in both the Apollo and Skylab programs.

Offline rod367th

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top aces from each country in ww2
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2004, 03:52:58 AM »
Australia Group Capt. Clive R. Caldwell 28
Austria Maj. Walter Nowotny 258
Belgium Flight Lt.Vicki Ortmans 11
Canada Squadron Leader George F. Buerling 31
Czechoslavakia Sgt. Josef Frantisek 28
Denmark Group Capt. Kaj Birksted 10
Finland Flight Master E. I. Juutualainen 94
France Squadron Leader Pierre H. Clostermann 19
Germany Maj. Erich Hartmann 352
Hungary 2nd Lt. Dezjö Szentgyörgyi 43
Ireland Wing Comdr. Bredan E. Finucane 32
Italy Maj. Adriano Visconti 26
Japan Chief Warrant Officer Hiroyoshi Nishizawa 103
Netherlands Lt. Col. van Arkel 5
New Zealand Wing Comdr. Colin F. Gray 27
Norway Flight Lt. Svein Heglund 16
Poland Jan Poniatowski 36
Rumania Capt. Prince Constantine Cantacuzino 60
South Africa Squadron Leader M. T. St. J. Pattle 41
UK Group Capt. James E. Johnson 38
USA Maj. Richard I. Bong 40
USSR Guards Col. Ivan N. Kozhedub 62

Offline mechanic

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b17 dogfight
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2004, 04:06:11 AM »
intresting read. thanks

batfink
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline Grits

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b17 dogfight
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2004, 11:38:17 AM »
DEATHSTAR!!

And folks always said furballing a light, fully gunned B-17 in AW was unrealistic. :)

Offline Charon

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b17 dogfight
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2004, 11:43:35 AM »
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And folks always said furballing a light, fully gunned B-17 in AW was unrealistic.


The ones in AW could do complete rolls and loops and outfigt fighter planes :)

Charon

Offline KurtVW

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b17 dogfight
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2004, 11:48:41 AM »
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Originally posted by Charon
The ones in AW could do complete rolls and loops and outfigt fighter planes :)

Charon


True, I got tailed by a 190 in AW2 while I was hitting a spit factory from 25k feet.  The 190 was inexperienced (apparently).  I put the 17 in a steep dive then pulled her into a beautiful loop.  The 190 failed to follow the manuver stalled and fell a long way before recovering... He didn't come back for a second try.

Offline Grits

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b17 dogfight
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2004, 12:01:27 PM »
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Originally posted by Charon
The ones in AW could do complete rolls and loops and outfigt fighter planes :)

Charon


Well, OK, you are right, I left that part out. :)

Offline slimm50

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b17 dogfight
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2004, 01:50:06 PM »
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Originally posted by KurtVW
True, I got tailed by a 190 in AW2 while I was hitting a spit factory from 25k feet.  The 190 was inexperienced (apparently).  I put the 17 in a steep dive then pulled her into a beautiful loop.  The 190 failed to follow the manuver stalled and fell a long way before recovering... He didn't come back for a second try.

Heh, I remember the 190 had the nastiest departure characteristics of any plane in AW.

Offline DoKGonZo

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b17 dogfight
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2004, 03:13:35 PM »
HAR! Pheer the B17!


Offline frank3

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b17 dogfight
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2004, 03:48:05 PM »
a Dutch ace!!
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Netherlands Lt. Col. van Arkel 5