German Planes/HTC

[Misfit]

Couple of things may or may not need to be looked at?

1) The tinted gun sight is actually making it harder to see targets in specific lighting. I dont know if its the new skins or maybe just my eye sight going bad but i can see targets alot better in allied sights then german. Historically i believe the sight could be toggled. Feed back anyone?

2)Flap deployment speeds. I talked to few people and they said this has been brought up in the past and that they were told by pyro that this was going to be fixed? The flaps on 109s and 190s dont deploy until well under 200. Any truth to this?

anyways feedback from the community be good
But i will not reply to flames, got no time for it:cool:

[Hajo]

Misfit....you are correct, a dark glass could be swung in behind the sight to darken the sight in high light conditions.

When on the deck over water the "tinted" LW sight is difficult to see through.

As for speeds when LW can deploy flaps....I unfortunately have no anwer to that.  Hopefully someone else does.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Misfit

 
But i will not reply to flames, got no time for it:cool:

See this was your problem.  Leaving this sentence out would have generated many more replies

All I can say is that my gear will always deploy before my flaps on both 109's and 190's but I have no idea as to whether that is historically correct or not.

[B17Skull12]

might i remind you are a dweeb MisFit .

But yes i do agree.

[madness]

Well I know for sure that most of the LW aircraft, fighters in general, had a toggable tint option depending on the lighting situation.  So if you were in a hot dogfight and you lost your shot because of the glare, would be bad.  Whether or not it is like this in AH II im not sure.  Bump for answers

[Kweassa]

Weren't 109Gs supposed to outturn P-47Ds pretty easily? And outturn the P-51D by a very small margin?

 At least, in AH2 no 109G will outturn any US plane now.

 Some say it is because of the flaps - and I fully understand the case if both planes were above the corner speed where flaps would work as a speed break as well as a stability device.

 However, when the speed becomes so low(under 200mph) that the 109 can start using own flaps, now the stability issue becomes a huge problem.

 No matter how many notches of flaps I pull out, whenever the plane reaches high AoA it will begin to immediately destabilize.

 
 So now, the funny thing is, against a P-47, the 109Gs are outturned at high speeds because they can't use flaps at that speed, and they are also outturned at low speeds, because the 109 flaps does not help at stabilizing the plane at all. The only way to win against a P-51D or a P-47D pilot with simular skill levels at a co-alt engagement, is to do the boring climb-to-alt-advantage bit again and again, and turn the fight into a BnZ.

 At all speeds and all alt ranges, all US planes will outturn a Bf109G. There's almost no difference in turning rates for the G-2, G-6 or the G-10 now. They all suck in the same manner.

 If this be due to outmaneuvering, and not necessarily "outturning", then all US planes are so stable that it is pretty easy to outmaneuver 109Gs at all speed ranges.

 I think either the flap efficiency(particularly the effect of lowering stall speeds) of US planes are much too high, or the flap efficiency of other planes are much too low.

 Come to think of it, I've seen the same thing happen with a C.202 vs the Spit14. The Spit14 outturns the C.202 in AH2. The C.202 reacts almost identically to the 109s - it can't hold on to high AoA, with or without flaps.

[KurtVW]

Kwessa,
Flaps do not lower your AOA. They increase it.

Therefore if you are already at a high AOA, adding flaps is never going to help.

The intent of flaps is to increase AOA without increasing the deck angle of the aircraft.  It also lowers the stall speed, but a stalled wing is a stalled wing regardless of speed... Therefore if you are hearing a stall horn, you're already in trouble regardless of airspeed.

A side effect of the increased AOA is lift (until you exceed the critical AOA at which point the stall occurs regardless), but it comes at a high drag penalty.  Generally speaking if you are dropping in a little 'manuvering' flaps, you want to get that pulled back in ASAP as your speed is going to come down FAST.  Low speed and High AOA is quite deadly.

Now, I know a few armchair bandits are going to show up and tell me I'm wrong, so I'm going to count on my fellow real life pilots to back me up here....

But if you have doubts about me being correct here then I'd ask you to explain to me why the spin/stall recovery method in every plane I know of requires you to pull up the flaps... Thats right, those flaps are aggrevating your stall...  Why?  Increased AOA.  Another stall aggitator is a high throttle setting...  Most aircraft will pitch up under high throttle settings (and torque left as well) that increased pitch makes the AOA even worse and makes the stall worse too.

The only way to turn well is to keep the wing flying... if you are stalling the wing you are not getting max performance...Flaps or no flaps.

[Misfit]

Bottom line is flaps deploying at lower speeds then landing gear cant be right. I mean 1 notch before landing gear would be nice.

[GODO]

About 190 family, this was posted by Pyro 3 months ago:

"CC, Godo. I'll take a good look at that. At some point hopefully soon, I want to redo the entire series. "

I hope we'll have new 190s in the very near future.

[Kweassa]

Kurt, whatever you may want to be getting at, the fact remains that using flaps for turns is the standard procedure to engage enemy planes in US planes now.

 All planes have their limits in the AoA which, if you cross over, you will stall. Planes react differently on the verge of the stall, but some planes react extremely making it easy to handle, while others react benevolently.

 Start a turn at 150mph in a P-51 or a P-47, and then gently stomp full rudder to the direction of the turn. The plane holds a tighter turn radius.

 Try that in a Spitfire, and the plane initially holds a better turn radius, then slips into a flatspin as the speed drops down.  

 Try that in a 109, and the plane immediately starts a snaproll.

 So okay, Bf109s and Spitfires are light planes with high torque. But what about the P-51s? They weren't exactly torqueless aircraft.

 The thing is, all US planes feel like the P-38 now, and to go a step further, maneuvering in the P-51 or the P-47 feels like playing IL2/FB now. The "mushy", "stable", rocking around and maneuvering at super low speeds with flaps out, not much worries about destabilization or torque.

 I've tried maneuvering in the 51 or the 47 without flaps to see how much difference it makes, so I'm pretty sure the difference comes from flaps. Whatever is the special ingredient in the flaps that enables the 51 or 47 to do that at 120mph, is not working, for the other planes.

[GRUNHERZ]

Yes I have noticed that US planes turn unusuallyu well now.

And also I would ask that the LW fighters geta clear gunsight, the tinted one makes aming extremely diddicult when you are down low.

[VWE]

In WWII wasn't it common knowledge that to try and turn fight with a 109 was suicide in either a Pony or Jug?

[KurtVW]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Kurt, whatever you may want to be getting at, the fact remains that using flaps for turns is the standard procedure to engage enemy planes in US planes now.

Well yes, but lets not forget that modern planes produce more than their own weight in thrust and use computer controlled flaps and slats.  With that much power available the increase in drag is not as apt to pull your speed down a great deal.

The thing is, all US planes feel like the P-38 now, and to go a step further, maneuvering in the P-51 or the P-47 feels like playing IL2/FB now. The "mushy", "stable", rocking around and maneuvering at super low speeds with flaps out, not much worries about destabilization or torque.

 I've tried maneuvering in the 51 or the 47 without flaps to see how much difference it makes, so I'm pretty sure the difference comes from flaps. Whatever is the special ingredient in the flaps that enables the 51 or 47 to do that at 120mph, is not working, for the other planes.

There is no doubt that the P51 handles really nice with that first notch of flaps deployed.  But that first notch barely deploy's the flap.  It was intended for use in this manner.  I do not know if that German planes used this kind of flap.  If their first notch of flaps is 10 or 15 degrees, then they are not going to work the same as a P51 that is putting in 5 degrees.

Lets not forget that there are a few different types of flaps also..  Some are just not effective for this purpose... The Spitfire flap is a great example.  It uses a split flap which creates a great deal more drag than lift.  This flap is not going to be as effective as the P51 for increasing turn performance.

[GRUNHERZ]

Bf109 did not have flap "settings" you could dial in anything you wanted... The flaps were controlled from a wheel in the cockpit and there is a history of them being used as "combat" flaps..  Also the Bf109 had the same type of plain flap as P51 did..

[KurtVW]

Thanks Grun, I knew it was the same flap type, what I didnt' know was that the control was as you describe.

So then the question is, how does the game set the flap (since clearly its not the analog variable thing you are describing) what amount of flap is the game putting in at the first 'notch'  Clearly its more than you would want simply for performance...  Thats something HTC can fix if they take a notion to...