Author Topic: The effects of the changes 2003 to 2004 (Read 2606 times)

Paul33 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 16, 2004, 08:34:17 PM »

Quote

Here's the stats on the D-9:

July 2003: Kills: 16,771, Deaths: 9109
July 2004: Kills: 16,842, Deaths: 9918

Aug 2003: Kills: 14,510, Deaths: 8970
Aug 2004: Kills: 14,912, Deaths: 9107

Basiscally the D-9 is getting the same numbers in 2004 as in 2003.

I thought about all those 190's I see in AH2 and thought how could this be right??!!

Infact, MORE people are flying the 190! If the same amount of people were still flying it after all those people left, then there would be a decline. But there isn't. Which leads me to believe that there are either more people flying it since last year, or that the same amount of people who left were replaced by new guys.

This could be why some of the other planes arent being flown as much as they used to. People might just be flying new planes...

Mugzeee · « **Reply #16 on:** September 16, 2004, 08:53:26 PM »

Why are we posting stats on particular planes?
Here is a quick look at All Kills

Tour…….Total Kills
50-692642
51-713708
52-597521
53-486581 AH2 released Mid Tour on 6/16/04
54-492754
55-471781
56-188420
This is day 16 of tour 56 and we are on a pace of less than 435000 total kills for the Tour.

I used Tour 50 through 56 with 53 being the MID point (AH2 was released 6/16/04)
So I included tour 53 in both the Pre and Post AH2 release averages. I also used the projection for Tour 56 (As it isnt complete yet.
Pre AH2 release Kills = 622613
Post Ah2 release kills = 471529

Someone commented that MA numbers are down from last year. I dont know where to find this info to get the evidence to such a claim. But i tend to disagree based on my own observation.

One fact remains undisputed. The Kills scored are down quite a bit.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #17 on:** September 16, 2004, 08:57:41 PM »

Yeah ... you kind of need the total sortie numbers to understand what the k/d is saying. If there are fewer total sorties, then perhaps not much has really changed.

MOSQ · « **Reply #18 on:** September 17, 2004, 01:23:09 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mugzeee
Why are we posting stats on particular planes?

Because that's why I started looking at the scores. To see what impact the new AHII had on the different planes. It was only after I saw a 50% decline in the most popular planes of AH I that I became interested in the total kills.

I think it's very interesting how the Spit V has gone up, D-9 stayed the same, and P-51/Spit 9/Niki down 50%.

And Mugzee the only valid comparison is the same month year to year. Otherwise seasonal factors play a big part. So to really see the difference we have to compare Aug 02 to Aug 03 to Aug 04 ect. Not April 04 to August 04.

June 02: 420,800
June 03: 544,366
June 04: 486,581

July 02: 529,241
July 03: 619,677
July 04: 492,754

Aug 02: 412,917
Aug 03: 642,645
Aug 04: 471,781

Zazen13 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 17, 2004, 03:01:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MOSQ
Because that's why I started looking at the scores. To see what impact the new AHII had on the different planes. It was only after I saw a 50% decline in the most popular planes of AH I that I became interested in the total kills.

I think it's very interesting how the Spit V has gone up, D-9 stayed the same, and P-51/Spit 9/Niki down 50%.

And Mugzee the only valid comparison is the same month year to year. Otherwise seasonal factors play a big part. So to really see the difference we have to compare Aug 02 to Aug 03 to Aug 04 ect. Not April 04 to August 04.

June 02: 420,800
June 03: 544,366
June 04: 486,581

July 02: 529,241
July 03: 619,677
July 04: 492,754

Aug 02: 412,917
Aug 03: 642,645
Aug 04: 471,781

Can you do the same numbers for the La7 please? I am just curious.

Zazen

TexMurphy · « **Reply #20 on:** September 17, 2004, 03:22:50 AM »

The biggest factor to total number of kills and deaths over a time period is the number of players who play.

If you dont have a stat that proves the numbers beeing equal at 2003 and 2004 then your stats unfortunatly wount say anything.

If you are comparing stats where you have 1 unknown factor and X number of changed factors then the total numbers in the stats are worthless.

The only thing you can compare with these stats is kill to death ratios and what that will give you is just trends.

Tex

Tilt · « **Reply #21 on:** September 17, 2004, 04:06:40 AM »

La7

July 2003 36918 kills to 31894 deaths
July 2004 35685 kills to 27965 deaths

Aug 2003 34662 kills to 27965 deaths
Aug 2004 22737 kills to 17285 deaths

1st observation is that July to Aug 2004 saw a massive down turn in use of this plane.

2nd observation is that year on year down turn seen on other top rides did not occur on the La7 until August 2004.

I think the Typhoon also bears looking at. It (and the 109G10)consistantly out kills the La7 every tour (plane v plane) and its numbers are not insignificant. Infact i think its more significant than the FW190D.

Typhoon

July 2003 22023 kills to 15863 deaths
July 2004 16797 kills to 10812 deaths

Aug 2003 22073 kills to 15619 deaths
Aug 2004 14359 kills to 9782 deaths (edit for oops)

Jackal1 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 17, 2004, 05:09:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zanth
This has been hard on you hardcore "better dead than bish/knit" rooks. From your perspective things might look darker, whereas the other two sides can look at the very same stuff and see great improvement.

Not so in every case. I`m Bish and given the opportunity I would choose AH1 over AHII in a heart beat. I guess it was like the old comfortable chair that you get used to.
On the other hand, I will dance with the one who brung me.

Only game in town worth considering at this point.

Gixer · « **Reply #23 on:** September 17, 2004, 06:31:29 AM »

"1) There was bound to be a loss of players with the change in system requirements from AH I to AH II. It simply requires a more powerful system. Short of bringing back AH I, not much can be done here. "

Certinly wasn't the reason why I stopped playing or anyone else I know of except for maybe one. Given the price of components these day's I dont think AH2 requires that much to break the bank.

~~...-Gixer~~

Morpheus · « **Reply #24 on:** September 17, 2004, 07:01:37 AM »

One time I shot at a spitV and he turned real hared and it was like he had a tail gun bc i was dead really really fast. And then Another time I was in a fight with an A6m, i was in a B26. He completely made quick work on me B26. I was shoting from my guns all over and still kouldnt get a ping on him.

So I think there is something going on. Yeah.

Mugzeee · « **Reply #25 on:** September 17, 2004, 08:10:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MOSQ

And Mugzee the only valid comparison is the same month year to year. Otherwise seasonal factors play a big part. So to really see the difference we have to compare Aug 02 to Aug 03 to Aug 04 ect. Not April 04 to August 04.

I fully understand this reasoning and of course i agree.
And im still taking bets as to how it all shakes in the end.
The Kills and occurance of them will remain down from any direct comparison in the future. It is simply harder to get kills in the MA.

Many BBS players claim that it is just as easy to Get a kill or (Hit) the nme.
But the numbers dont lie. The overall averags tell the story as to how the "New" AH is effecting us as a whole.
The changes in the flight model Smaller hit sprites and other little tweaks are effecting our ability to kill.
And we might be seing the ENY sanction system effecting our desire to even bother.
However, HT has made some changes to the ENY settings and we may see some changes as a result. I am of the opinion that the the ENY sanction system has an inherent flaw in that effectively and practicaly fine tuning it is going to be impossible.
It will either be active or not. Therefore it will sometimes be ignored (Not active per settings) or it will be dispized (Too active to please the players who want to fly certian AC).
So basically its a lot of work for nothing.
The system by nature takes a tangible tool from the effected players hands. This is what makes the system generally disliked.

MOSQ · « **Reply #26 on:** September 17, 2004, 10:21:21 AM »

Tilt,
Thanks for posting the LA-7. I would have guessed before you posted them that the LA-7 would be down in August because the ENY system was limiting it's use.

I would not have guessed the same decline in the Typhoon though. With the P-51D unavailable because of ENY, I would have guessed the Typhoon would have been higher as an attack replacement for the 51.

BTW, you need to edit the Typhoon listing, it has Aug 2003 twice. But we know what you meant.

And here's an even more interesting trend:

Panzer:

July 2003: Kills: 54,748; Deaths: 54,389 Combined: 109,137
July 2004: Kills: 48,353; Deaths: 45,108 Combined: 93,461

Aug 2003: Kills: 58,400; Deaths: 57,312 Combined: 115,712
Aug 2004: Kills: 79,428; Deaths: 75,914 Combined: 155,342

Do the August Panzer stats indicate a switch to GV's due to the Eny limiter and more difficult gunnery in planes, or is this just a blip because August had particularly good maps for the GV folks?

They are totally counter to the overall August trends. If this keeps up it will be Mud Aces soon.

The final September numbers should be very interesting.

jaxxo · « **Reply #27 on:** September 17, 2004, 10:48:35 AM »

The reason for the decline of my kills per tour is straight boredom. I think the vets have reached a point where they are tired of trying to find fights with other skilled pilots. 9 out of 10 sorties I get ganged, even after dragging the guy half a sector away,...or i kick the living crap out of some guy i actually managed to catch alone. Sorry if that sounds cocky but Im sure most of the skilled vets would agree. So im left to find "interesting" things to do. Yesterday i spent an hour and a half tryin to get the convoy at tank town to flip me on top of the tree canopy (worked by the way, i got 3 kills but was first camper killed ironicaly). Now the biggest challenge for me is to bust up vulchfests with an osti. (yawn) Gameplay is ridiculously lame.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #28 on:** September 17, 2004, 11:05:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mugzeee
I fully understand this reasoning and of course i agree.
And im still taking bets as to how it all shakes in the end.
The Kills and occurance of them will remain down from any direct comparison in the future. It is simply harder to get kills in the MA.

...

I dunno ... the kill ratio for the P51 went up from .92 to 1.06 for those two months. Indicating it got easier to get kills in the P-51, not harder.

The Spit V's K/D also went up from .89 to .99.

The D-9's K/D went down from 1.73 to 1.67 overall; but the volume of K/D stayed about the same while everyone else dropped a lot.

I also suspect a lot of the death numbers for the P-51 and D-9 are bloated due to lots of Jabo usage. Whereas Spits and N1K's tend not to get too close to AAA range until some of the heavy iron has cleared it.

The volume of kills and deaths isn't meaningful unless we know the total sortie rates for those planes in those months. Given what folks are saying about how full the MA is, it sounds like the kill and death totals are in keeping with the overall player volume.

-DoK

GODO · « **Reply #29 on:** September 17, 2004, 12:05:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
II also suspect a lot of the death numbers for the P-51 and D-9 are bloated due to lots of Jabo usage. Whereas Spits and N1K's tend not to get too close to AAA range until some of the heavy iron has cleared it.

Actually SpitIX or niki are far better jabos than D9.