Author Topic: Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..  (Read 1148 times)

Offline AKIron

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2004, 01:31:41 PM »
Been trying to get her to say " Yo quero Taco Bell". Having as much luck with that as getting her to attack visitors. :D
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Muckmaw1

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2004, 01:32:29 PM »
Back seat moderation. :)

Offline bigsky

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2004, 01:36:26 PM »
taco bell is the cause of most diarrhea.
"I am moist like bacon"

Offline Muckmaw1

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2004, 01:39:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Muckmaw1
Back seat moderation. :)


And for about 3 seconds I'm looking at my post thinking..
"I did'nt write that."

Offline Zippatuh

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2004, 01:40:18 PM »
The following information and links were sent to me by my wife.  She is also the author of one of the articles that I’ll also post here.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/legislation.html
http://www.pbrc.net/breedspecific.html
Can you find the pitbull?
CDC Site - Has the Devil Pit in it - but read closely

First off I’m not saying that large dogs do not cause problems when not properly handled by the owners.  What you all are stating here is that the “breed” should be banned, killed, off, or whatever nonsense that I idly read through.

When not properly taken care of any dog, especially a large breed dog, can be dangerous.  The issue is only that “pitbulls” are news worthy and get reported more.  It’s also more likely that the dog is not truly a pitbull as from what I understand it is actually not a breed at all but a designation of several breeds in a cross.

It’s the new buzz word for the press.  OMG, the pitbulls are attacking us all!  Stating “When are they going to eliminate the breed or the breeders” is ridiculous and ignorant.  I would argue that the dog that attacked in this situation wasn’t a pitbull at all but probably a large mixed breed dog.  Since being a “pitbull” is subjective and can only be proven by expensive DNA measures it’s easy for the public to specifically pick out a “breed” for the dog and then flash the headline.

The links posted here for breed ban specific legislation outlines the problems with identifying pitbulls and outright removing them from communities.  It simply isn’t possible due to the large birth that the “breed” is being lumped into.  The CDC pdf file shows that pits where indeed the problem during the measured time period; however, it specifically outlines that Rot’s are more of a problem.  In past studies it was the German Shepard.

If you want to stop dog attacks and deaths then singling out a breed is not going to do it.  Start enforcing current laws for the owners.  Why was the dog loose in the first place?  Start imposing jail time and fines for owners with aggressive dogs.  Oh, but you can’t do that can you.  Then the definition for an “aggressive dog” comes into play.  Mumsies Chihuahua  could all of a sudden place her in the poky or cause a large fine to be imposed when it finally bites someone.

What you’re trying to do is to stop me from owning certain types of property that you feel are unnecessary.  How about we make it to where any dog over the size of 15 pounds is eliminated.  That way we can make total sure that no one dies from a dog attack.  Of course then there would be the problem of Mumsies Chihuahua again attacking an infant.  So lets just get rid of dogs all together.

Owners are the problem not the breed.  If in fact one day the devil does come out of my pit and attacks me like the other poster here did, then yes the dog goes down.  Will that happen; highly unlikely, but anything is possible.  The nature of a dog is that of, well, a dog.  They do not reason but have temperaments, some more aggressive than others.  It does not necessarily mean though that all dogs in the breed are going to be killers but it does mean that all dogs are animals and will be as such.  Taking your eye off any dog around children or infants is ignorant independent of the breed.  An owner who raises a dog to be aggressive or owns one that has the natural temperament to be aggressive should be directly responsible for the dogs actions.

In short, try and take my dog from me and you’ll have about as much luck as getting the S&W out of my hand that’s guarding him.  This would probably be the case for anyone who owns, or rather has, a friend and sidekick.

Basically, get your hand out of my pocket.  Go after the owners not the dogs; besides, it’s not the dogs fault it’s an animal, but it is the owners fault for not taking proper care of it.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2004, 01:46:48 PM by Zippatuh »

Offline Zippatuh

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2004, 01:42:00 PM »
This is the article that my wife had published…

_____________________________ _____________________________ ________

After coming home from a stroll with their newly rescued dog, the Bishop family was surprised when an animal control officer was standing at their door.  It seemed there had been a complaint about their dog by a neighbor.  The family insisted that this must be a mistake:  their dog was current on his vaccinations, was never allowed to run off leash, and had been responsibly neutered.  The animal control officer quickly explained that although their dog had caused no “problems”, the issue was that their 35 pound dog which had been identified by a veterinarian as a French Bulldog/Boxer mix, “looked” like a Pit Bull.  Since Pit Bulls are banned in the city, they were ordered to remove the dog from city limits within 72 hours.  Does this sound unfair, irrational, and possibly even crazy?  Unfortunately, this scenario happens daily in the Kansas City metro area where breed specific legislation (BSL) is running rampant.  

Many proponents of BSL will use the Center for Disease Control’s (CDC) statistics regarding dog bites to have specific breeds banned from their cities.  What these BSL advocates do not tell you is that the CDC does not support BSL.  In fact, in a special report titled “Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998”, the CDC indicates, “data may be biased…” Among the reasons they cite are the following, “to the extent that attacks by 1 breed are more newsworthy than those by other breeds, our methods may have resulted in differential ascertainment of fatalities by breed” and “because identification of a dog’s breed may be subjective (even experts may disagree on the breed of a particular dog), DBRF [dog bite related fatalities] may be differentially ascribed to breeds with a reputation for aggression.”  In their conclusion they acknowledge the following:

Although fatal attacks on humans appear to be a breed-specific problem… other breeds may bite and cause fatalities at higher rates.  Because of difficulties inherent in determining a dog’s breed with certainty, enforcement of breed-specific ordinances raises constitutional and practical issues.
Breed misidentification is only one of the many reasons why BSL is not the best alternative for our community.  The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) asserts that, “many of the factors that affect a dog’s propensity to bite are no more specific to a pit bull than they are to a poodle.”  In a May-June 2001 article called “Blame the Breed?” the HSUS cites the following statistics:
•   Since 1975, dogs belonging to more than 30 breeds have been responsible for fatal attacks on people.
•   Sexually intact dogs are 2.6 times more likely to bite than sterilized dogs
•   Chained dogs are 2.8 times more likely to bite than unchained dogs
Nearly all reputable organizations that know anything about dogs, including the CDC, HSUS and many others such as the American Veterinary Medical Association, the American Kennel Club (AKC), the National Animal Control Association, and the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, oppose BSL in favor of enforcing responsible pet ownership.   Alternatives suggested by these organizations are as follows:
•   Lobby for non-breed specific laws such as a dangerous dog law that would punish owners that allow their dogs to run off leash or deliberately train their dog to be a danger to others.  A new law that is gaining momentum and that has recently been passed in Lawrence is an anti-tethering law.  According to an article in the Lawrence Journal World titled City decision goes to the dogs, the law will “prohibit people from keeping a dog chained for more than one hour at a time, for a maximum of three hours a day, with required three-hour breaks between chaining.”
•   Enforce existing laws.  Many cities already have dangerous dog laws and leash laws that are not enforced.  It is essential that the public insist that these laws are enforced.
•   Educate the public on responsible dog ownership by providing responsible dog ownership seminars and canine safety education.  Education should include the importance of spaying and neutering and the dangers of allowing their dog to run at large.  
Another statistic fallacy that the CDC explains on their website is the fact that they have no data regarding how many dogs there are of one breed in the United States and therefore the numbers gathered have absolutely no meaning.  In other words, the numbers would have more significance if they could compare the number of bites per breed versus the number of dogs of that breed that exist in our country.  According to the American Temperament Test Society, Inc., a non-profit organization dedicated to “uniform temperament evaluation of purebred and spayed/neutered mixed-breed dogs”, over 83.9% of the American Pit Bull Terrier’s and 82.2% of Rottweilers tested, have passed their temperament test.  This is compared to 79.2% of Border Collies, 76.2% of Australian Shepherds, and 80.9% of breeds on average.  These figures seem to indicate that our view of certain breeds have been skewed by positive or negative media attention, depending on the breed.
The bottom-line is that BSL is not a community’s answer to dog bite prevention.  In addition to the reasons mentioned before, the AKC has this to say about BSL:
Breed-specific laws are not the best way to protect communities. An owner intent on using his or her dogs for malicious purposes will simply be able to switch to another type of dog and continue to jeopardize public safety. The list of regulated breeds or types could grow every year without ever addressing responsible dog ownership. Deeds, not breeds, should be addressed.
For additional information regarding this unfair epidemic you may visit the following websites:
Center for Disease Control:   http://www.cdc.gov

Humane Society of the United States   http://www.hsus.org

The American Veterinary Medical Association   http://www.avma.org

The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals   http://www.aspca.org

American Kennel Club   http://www.akc.org

Missouri Pit Bull Rescue   http://www.mprgroup.net

Pit Bull Rescue Central   http://www.pbrc.net

American Temperament Test Society, Inc.   http://www.atts.org

Offline Sixpence

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2004, 01:43:26 PM »
It's kinda like raising a lion cub from birth, sure, it can work, but I wouldn't trust it. One day you're a meal
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline capt. apathy

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2004, 01:47:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ASTAC
I'm still waiting for the pitbull owner to show up to defend with...

"They're not all like that. I have one and it's like a baby and very loving"

A little preemtive strike....NO MATTER WHAT TRAINING YOU GIVE A DOG..NO MATTER HOW THEY SEEM TO BE...YOU CAN NEVER OVERRIDE INSTICT!

These dogs are mean and agressive by instict..therefore a menace and should be outlawed.


BS-
they are not naturally vicious, they are very motivated over achievers.  if you train them to be mean they will be very good at it.

I've owned 4, the latest is closing in on 15 years old.  I've owned and been around them since I was 13 yrs old (thats 25 yrs).  my brother currently has 2 that I watch often.  I didn't have one when my son was a baby but both of my daughters were babies around pit-bulls, when they cut their teeth they did most of it on the ears of the poor dogs who whined a bit and tried to hide from the kids but never once showed an aggressive tendency twards any child.

the problem is that many of you are falling for simple hype and propaganda.  the news media inflicts a huge bias and you guys suck it up.

I've been bitten (to the point of needing stitches) twice in my life.  once when younger a relatives dachshund, and when I was a teenager a doberman did a bit of damage to my arm before I could kill it.

my sister in law was bitten in the face and permanently scarred by a husky.

my little brother was bitten in the neck and face (also scarred) by a full sized poodle.

I don't know anyone, personally, who's ever been unjustifiably attacked by a pit bull.  the only ones I do know of were the 2 (separate occasions) who tried to break into my house.

the point is that offhand I can think of a dozen or more people who have been bitten and/or scarred by dog attacks, and not one of them was by a pit.  I would be willing to bet that if answered honestly most people would have to agree that their experience if any with dog bites would be very similar.

yet how many non-pit bull dog attacks are deemed 'news worthy', I can't think of a single non-pit bull dog attack that made the news.

Offline Sixpence

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2004, 01:52:00 PM »
yeah, and someone's grandma smoked all her life and she's a 120. See, smoking isn't bad for you
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Cougar68

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2004, 01:59:25 PM »
The difference with pit bull bites and most other breeds and the reason you don't hear about it is simply the damage that is done.  Like I said before I've been working with dogs for 15 years now.  I've seen labs, collies, chihuahuas, border collies, cattle dogs and boxers bite people, to name a few.  But I've also seen pit bull bites.  Take a lab for instance.  They can be trained to do just about whatever you want them to, including being aggressive.  But when a lab bites, it's usually a warning and not an attack.  A couple of stitches if necessary and all is well.  But the pit bites I've seen are much different.  They don't bite for warning, they hold on for the kill because it is what THEY WERE BRED FOR.  

I won't deny that owners are largely responsible for their dog's behavior problems.  BUT!!!!!!!!  You CAN'T own a collie and get pissed off if they try to herd up the kids at your son's birthday party and you CAN'T be suprised when your pit bull mauls someone.  A particular breed should be expected to act as it was bred to.  Don't own a collie if you don't want herding, don't own a dachsund if you don't like it running after vermon and don't own a pitbull if you don't want to take the chance of getting bitten.

Cougar

Offline ASTAC

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2004, 02:02:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy
BS-
they are not naturally vicious, they are very motivated over achievers.  if you train them to be mean they will be very good at it.

I've owned 4, the latest is closing in on 15 years old.  I've owned and been around them since I was 13 yrs old (thats 25 yrs).  my brother currently has 2 that I watch often.  I didn't have one when my son was a baby but both of my daughters were babies around pit-bulls, when they cut their teeth they did most of it on the ears of the poor dogs who whined a bit and tried to hide from the kids but never once showed an aggressive tendency twards any child.

the problem is that many of you are falling for simple hype and propaganda.  the news media inflicts a huge bias and you guys suck it up.

I've been bitten (to the point of needing stitches) twice in my life.  once when younger a relatives dachshund, and when I was a teenager a doberman did a bit of damage to my arm before I could kill it.

my sister in law was bitten in the face and permanently scarred by a husky.

my little brother was bitten in the neck and face (also scarred) by a full sized poodle.

I don't know anyone, personally, who's ever been unjustifiably attacked by a pit bull.  the only ones I do know of were the 2 (separate occasions) who tried to break into my house.

the point is that offhand I can think of a dozen or more people who have been bitten and/or scarred by dog attacks, and not one of them was by a pit.  I would be willing to bet that if answered honestly most people would have to agree that their experience if any with dog bites would be very similar.

yet how many non-pit bull dog attacks are deemed 'news worthy', I can't think of a single non-pit bull dog attack that made the news.


did you read my other post?
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline Sikboy

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2004, 02:25:40 PM »
Thanks for the info Zip, very interesting stuff.

It really seems to support my strict liability plan.

-Sik
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline sling322

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2004, 03:23:37 PM »
Sheeesh....next thing you know you folks are going to try to convince me that a kid acting up in school is society's fault and not parenting.  :rolleyes:

A dog is trained to be aggressive.  My cousin had a pit for about 16 yrs who was well trained and would give babies rides around the living room.  He never once attacked anyone provoked or not.  However, if you ever lifted a finger against one of his "family members" he would be at your feet growling and I guarantee you he would make sure you understood what he was trying to tell you.  He was a neutered male and was very protective of his family but he was raised right and trained well.  Painting the whole breed with the same brush simply because some idiots out there aren't responsible dog owners is redikulus.

Offline ASTAC

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2004, 03:50:30 PM »
I can't believe you guys are so passionate for an animal..they aren't even nice looking dogs.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline Dago

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Another Day..another Pit Bull Attack..
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2004, 04:08:43 PM »
If a guy can't have a Pitbull, how will he compensate for the little "unit" that drives him to get one in the first place?

How can he prove he is a man?  How can he try to impress people with how macho he is?

My God people, don't make these poor unfortunate souls lacking in self-asteem resort to going around every day without something to make them feel powerful.

But then, I guess they could always by a Harley, works the same way.  :rofl

dago
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