Author Topic: Lancs Low Level (Read 890 times)

Raider179 · « **on:** September 28, 2004, 11:39:32 AM »

http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/lanc2.html

The following months saw the squadron complete its work up on the Lancaster, and the first operational mission, minelaying in Heligoland Blight, was flown on March 3, 1942. The following month, No 97 Squadron at Woodhall Spa, and No 44 combined on the first of many daring Lancaster when 12 aircraft carried out a daylight low-level attack on the MAN diesel factory at Augsburg. The raid was, however, marred by the loss of seven Lancasters. Many raids over the following months helped to refine attack methods and bombing techniques and by August 1942, working in partnership with the Pathfinder Force, accuracy had improved dramatically.

I think this shows low level lancs were in fact part of the WW2. plz quit whining.

SlapShot · « **Reply #1 on:** September 28, 2004, 12:21:07 PM »

What is the definition of "low-level" ?

500-1000 ft AGL ... I don't think so.

That is what they considered in the next paragraph as "ultra-low level" and thats was used for one specific type of attack that tooks months to train for.

humble · « **Reply #2 on:** September 28, 2004, 12:27:44 PM »

As much as I hate low level bombing Polesti was a low level raid...lots of pictures of buffs lower than 100 ft during that raid...a number were lost to bomb blast/smokestack/building impacts.

Furious · « **Reply #3 on:** September 28, 2004, 12:28:50 PM »

...and they didn't get 3 lives to do it with each time they upped.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 28, 2004, 12:30:41 PM »

"The raid was marred by the loss of 7 aircraft. '

7 out of 12 aircraft lost and unlike AH the RAF didn't have an unlimited source of Lancasters.

No they didn't run regular low level raids. They'd have been out of business fast.

The Dambusters got clobbered on the damns raid too. If they'd had to sustain those kinds of losses day after day they would have ceased to exist.

Dan/Slack

Killjoy2 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 28, 2004, 12:31:13 PM »

If you want low level bombers then give us flak batteries like Polesti.

As for the Lanc's example, so many were lost to flak that the British switched to nightime bombing.

When ever I see a low level bomber hitting my base, I make a point of taking the resources at the bombers base and then telling them to go somewhere else.

If you want to fly buffs, get some alt or lose your resources.

Raider179 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 28, 2004, 01:54:37 PM »

http://www.aviationcollectables.co.uk/pub/covers/mfseries1.html#MF2a

The raid called for the bravest of aircrew as the target was over 1,000 miles from England and to make matters worse the raid was to take place in broad daylight with no fighter escort, flying at less than 250ft in order to avoid enemy radar. Despite a diversionary raid to draw the German fighters away from the intended target and route, the six 44 Squadron Lancasters were savaged by Bf 109s and FW 190s returning home to their airfield. Only two of No 44 Squadron’s Lancasters made it to the target and only Nettleton’s aircraft made it back across the channel. The No 97 Squadron Lancasters all made it to the target, but two were shot down over the target. In all seven of the twelve Lancasters that took part failed to return and 49 out of the 85 airmen who took part were posted as ‘missing’ – however they had succeeded in causing severe disruption at the factory.

hmmm 250 ft to avoid dar....sounds like MA to me. Someone asked for an example of Low level lancs and this is one. You can tear it apart and say anything about it but it doesnt change the fact it occured. Lots of Lancs get shot down. In fact I find it particulary easy to shoot them down at any altitude. So I am not sure I understand the problem. Oh yeah as for divebombing on CVs All i can say is get a better gunner. Those SE guys can hit stuff from way off with the 5"s maybe gunnery lessons are in order. Or fly cap. 5k alt on a lanc you should be able to catch it for it does any damage.

I would be in favor of better ack for fields and cvs think that is a great Idea.

MRPLUTO · « **Reply #7 on:** September 28, 2004, 02:42:40 PM »

Two important (?) points:

1. Low level missions were rare and costly in real life. In the MA they are stardard operating procedure for a large number of pilots. And just wait until we get B-24s...every day will be like a dozen Ploestis. Oh well, so be it. I'd prefer more organized hi-alt strategic campaigns, but for most players that's too time-consuming and boring, I guess. The problem is that...

2. ...many of these low level missions end in steep, kamikaze-inspired dives to the target by an entire formation of heavy bombers. This is embarrassing and stupid. At least try to survive...the battles as you fight your way home are some of the best in Aces High!

I think the best solutions at the moment are 20k spawns allowed far from the front and allowing bombs to only be dropped from the bombardier's position while in more or less level flight.

MRPLUTO

rod367th · « **Reply #8 on:** September 28, 2004, 04:03:14 PM »

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I want people to play my way or else......................... ... I could careless how other plays as long as cheating not involved. The guys posting on these bbs don't even represent 1/10th of players in game........... but WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAA on how others play thier way.You want guys not playing your way to play your way pay thier accounts or shut up and just play............wwwwwwwaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaa we should only have 203's no other planes 3k max alt then all fair lolololololol waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaashutaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaatheaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaafkaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaupaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

MOIL · « **Reply #9 on:** September 28, 2004, 11:12:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MRPLUTO
Two important (?) points:

1. Low level missions were rare and costly in real life. In the MA they are stardard operating procedure for a large number of pilots. And just wait until we get B-24s...every day will be like a dozen Ploestis. Oh well, so be it. I'd prefer more organized hi-alt strategic campaigns, but for most players that's too time-consuming and boring, I guess. The problem is that...

2. ...many of these low level missions end in steep, kamikaze-inspired dives to the target by an entire formation of heavy bombers. This is embarrassing and stupid. At least try to survive...the battles as you fight your way home are some of the best in Aces High!

I think the best solutions at the moment are 20k spawns allowed far from the front and allowing bombs to only be dropped from the bombardier's position while in more or less level flight.

MRPLUTO

No WAY!!!!!

Keep it Air Quake!

Griego · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2004, 11:19:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rod367th
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I want people to play my way or else......................... ... I could careless how other plays as long as cheating not involved. The guys posting on these bbs don't even represent 1/10th of players in game........... but WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAA on how others play thier way.You want guys not playing your way to play your way pay thier accounts or shut up and just play............wwwwwwwaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaa we should only have 203's no other planes 3k max alt then all fair lolololololol waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaashutaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaatheaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaafkaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaupaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

AS your avatar suggest. Thats pretty gay!

Tails · « **Reply #11 on:** September 29, 2004, 12:12:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MRPLUTO
... and allowing bombs to only be dropped from the bombardier's position while in more or less level flight.
MRPLUTO

Anyone that touches my Ju-88 gets beat to death with a herring.

Raider179 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 29, 2004, 01:35:31 PM »

I think I have seen this somewhere but cant remember. How bout a dive angle limiter. Shallow dives are ok but anything steep bombs wont release. Seems a fair easy way to solve it. Not sure what the angle would be but think it would stop a lot of the suiciders. Being able to only drop the bombs from the bombadier sight is not the way to solve it. The reason I see that we have 3 ship formations is because bombers are easy to shoot down. My guess for those that have trouble is they attack from the wrong position. DO NOT ATTACK FROM THE SIX. There are only a few reasons I get killed in buffs. 1. run out of ammo. 2. swarmed by fighers. 3. 5" cv ack gets me. and 4. a fighter pilot who actually knows how to attack buffs kills me. Sorry if the spit dweebs dont have the firepower to take a lanc down fly a plane with better cannons. I see no real probelm except people obviously dont want to any defending all they want to do is attack and then complain that some crappy bomber pilot sunk their cv. If all this keeps up this game is gonna just be a stalemate with no winners and no losers and that makes for no reason to play.

Cooley · « **Reply #13 on:** September 29, 2004, 01:50:55 PM »

Quote from Raider- How bout a dive angle limiter. Shallow dives are ok but anything steep bombs wont release. Seems a fair easy way to solve it.

Yep

FiLtH · « **Reply #14 on:** September 29, 2004, 02:41:23 PM »

We know why bomber pilots want to fly low. It doesnt take as long to get to target, and theres a lot of tailgun action to be had.

The question is why do so many fighter pilots want the bombers to fly high? With a good setup at 20k, the hangers can fall almost as easily as at 500ft. So that can't be it. They can still get the kill if they are close to them at release and they blow themselves up..so that can't be it. Perhaps it is'nt the low fighters that are complaining about this, but rather the guys that fly high, and want a target to shoot at up there, instead of risking it down on the deck? Whatever the reason, until bombs wont arm unless over 10k, the bombers will be on the deck alot of the time, and thats just how it is.