Author Topic: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11  (Read 1650 times)

Offline DREDIOCK

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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2004, 12:36:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by oboe
AWMac,  I don't know where you get your information but it's just plain wrong.   Odds are, you were better off economically under Clinton than you have been under President Bush.    (Unless of course, you are a millionaire - if that's the case please accept my apologies and congratulations).

 


I have been always of the opinion that the prez has very little to with the economy.
But I keep hearing how Bush is responcable for the  recession and how clinton is responcible for the Boom of the 90's

Im am just wondering.

If bush is responcible for the recession. then clinton is equally responcible for promoting an illusionary boom inasmuch as the boom was largely based on illusion
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Offline TweetyBird

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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2004, 12:46:31 PM »
>>The greater problem lay with the limp sisters and those that are so eager for power they will influence their own country losing ANOTHER war just to be in the oval office.
<<

It ain't limp sisters who are demostrating a complete ignorance in fighting a guerilla war. Its the shrinking violets in the White House. "I'm right I tell ya, its just hard hard work! How was I supposed to know they would change clothes?"

Offline crowMAW

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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2004, 01:21:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
The no fly program and restrictions didnt seem to stop France, and germany from shipping war material to Iraq now did it?

What war material did France and Germany provide Iraq after the Embargo?

Offline crowMAW

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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2004, 01:28:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jasta
Now, the reason Iraq is important to the war on terror is because Saddam has MANY ties with Al Qaeda and Palestinian terrorists.

What ties?  Where are you getting this $500k to Al-Zawahiri from Saddam info?  I hope you have something other than a NewsMax or Weekly Standard article.

Offline straffo

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2004, 01:40:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
BEEP BEEP BEEP FACT


Zero source == Zero fact.


And please don't dig up the "Polish troop have found French weapon" but unfortunatly destroyed it ...

Offline crowMAW

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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2004, 01:52:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK Lets not forget that Bush all along has said "We will go after terrorists and the countries that support them"

NOBODY can deny that Iraq supported Terrorists organasations.

So how long before we invade Saudi, Jordan, and Libya?  To name a few, they also are known to give generously to families of dead Palestinian terrorists.

Offline Eagler

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here's one..
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2004, 02:01:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by crowMAW
What war material did France and Germany provide Iraq after the Embargo?


WARSAW (Reuters) - Polish troops in Iraq have found four French-built advanced anti-aircraft missiles which were built this year, a Polish Defense Ministry spokesman told Reuters Friday.

France strongly denied having sold any such missiles to Iraq for nearly two decades, and said it was impossible that its newest missiles should turn up in Iraq.

"Polish troops discovered an ammunition depot on Sept. 29 near the region of Hilla and there were four French-made Roland-type missiles," Defense Ministry spokesman Eugeniusz Mleczak said.

"It is not the first time Polish troops found ammunition in Iraq but to our surprise these missiles were produced in 2003."

The Roland anti-aircraft system is a short-range air defense missile in service with at least 10 countries, including France and Germany
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: here's one..
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2004, 02:12:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
WARSAW (Reuters) - Polish troops in Iraq have found four French-built advanced anti-aircraft missiles which were built this year, a Polish Defense Ministry spokesman told Reuters Friday.

France strongly denied having sold any such missiles to Iraq for nearly two decades, and said it was impossible that its newest missiles should turn up in Iraq.

"Polish troops discovered an ammunition depot on Sept. 29 near the region of Hilla and there were four French-made Roland-type missiles," Defense Ministry spokesman Eugeniusz Mleczak said.

"It is not the first time Polish troops found ammunition in Iraq but to our surprise these missiles were produced in 2003."

The Roland anti-aircraft system is a short-range air defense missile in service with at least 10 countries, including France and Germany


and speaking of which I seem to remember Iraq kept rebuilding these air defence systems after we kept knocking them out.
Now if the above isnt true
Where did Iraq get the material and parts needed to rebuild these systems which oddly enough were far more modern then what was used during gulf war I.

I guess maybe someone found a bottle with a magic Geni in it who granted them some wishes and with a wave of his hand they just magically appeared.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2004, 02:32:33 PM »
Washington Times

 Saddam


By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The United States stood by for years as supposed allies helped its enemies obtain the world's most dangerous weapons, reveals Bill Gertz, defense and national security reporter for The Washington Times, in the new book "Treachery" (Crown Forum). In this excerpt, he details France's persistence in arming Saddam Hussein.
   
    First of three excerpts
   
   
    New intelligence revealing how long France continued to supply and arm Saddam Hussein's regime infuriated U.S. officials as the nation prepared for military action against Iraq.
    The intelligence reports showing French assistance to Saddam ongoing in the late winter of 2002 helped explain why France refused to deal harshly with Iraq and blocked U.S. moves at the United Nations.
    "No wonder the French are opposing us," one U.S. intelligence official remarked after illegal sales to Iraq of military and dual-use parts, originating in France, were discovered early last year before the war began.
    That official was careful to stipulate that intelligence reports did not indicate whether the French government had sanctioned or knew about the parts transfers. The French company at the beginning of the pipeline remained unidentified in the reports.
    France's government tightly controls its aerospace and defense firms, however, so it would be difficult to believe that the illegal transfers of equipment parts took place without the knowledge of at least some government officials.
    Iraq's Mirage F-1 fighter jets were made by France's Dassault Aviation. Its Gazelle attack helicopters were made by Aerospatiale, which became part of a consortium of European defense companies.
    "It is well-known that the Iraqis use front companies to try to obtain a number of prohibited items," a senior Bush administration official said before the war, refusing to discuss Iraq's purchase of French warplane and helicopter parts.
    The State Department confirmed intelligence indicating the French had given support to Iraq's military.
     "U.N. sanctions prohibit the transfer to Iraq of arms and materiel of all types, including military aircraft and spare parts," State Department spokeswoman Jo-Anne Prokopowicz said. "We take illicit transfers to Iraq very seriously and work closely with our allies to prevent Iraq from acquiring sensitive equipment."
     Sen. Ted Stevens, Alaska Republican and chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, declared that France's selling of military equipment to Iraq was "international treason" as well as a violation of a U.N. resolution.
     "As a pilot and a former war pilot, this disturbs me greatly that the French would allow in any way parts for the Mirage to be exported so the Iraqis could continue to use those planes," Stevens said.
    "The French, unfortunately, are becoming less trustworthy than the Russians," said Rep. Curt Weldon, Pennsylvania Republican and vice chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. "It's outrageous they would allow technology to support the jets of Saddam Hussein to be transferred."
    The U.S. military was about to go to war with Iraq, and thanks to the French, the Iraqi air force had become more dangerous.
   
    The pipeline
    French aid to Iraq goes back decades and includes transfers of advanced conventional arms and components for weapons of mass destruction.
    The central figure in these weapons ties is French President Jacques Chirac. His relationship with Saddam dates to 1975, when, as prime minister, the French politician rolled out the red carpet when the Iraqi strongman visited Paris.
    "I welcome you as my personal friend," Chirac told Saddam, then vice president of Iraq.
    The French put Saddam up at the Hotel Marigny, an annex to the presidential palace, and gave him the trappings of a head of state. The French wanted Iraqi oil, and by establishing this friendship, Chirac would help France replace the Soviet Union as Iraq's leading supplier of weapons and military goods.
    In fact, Chirac helped sell Saddam the two nuclear reactors that started Baghdad on the path to nuclear weapons capability.
    France's corrupt dealings with Saddam flourished throughout the 1990s, despite the strict arms embargo against Iraq imposed by the United Nations after the Persian Gulf war.
    By 2000, France had become Iraq's largest supplier of military and dual-use equipment, according to a senior member of Congress who declined to be identified.
    Saddam developed networks for illegal supplies to get around the U.N. arms embargo and achieve a military buildup in the years before U.S. forces launched a second assault on Iraq.
    One spare-parts pipeline flowed from a French company to Al Tamoor Trading Co. in the United Arab Emirates. Tamoor then sent the parts by truck through Turkey, and into Iraq. The Iraqis obtained spare parts for their French-made Mirage F-1 jets and Gazelle attack helicopters through this pipeline.
   
    A huge debt
    U.S. intelligence would not discover the pipeline until the eve of war last year; sensitive intelligence indicated that parts had been smuggled to Iraq as recently as that January.
     "A thriving gray-arms market and porous borders have allowed Baghdad to acquire smaller arms and components for larger arms, such as spare parts for aircraft, air-defense systems and armored vehicles," the CIA said in a report to Congress made public that month.
    U.S. intelligence agencies later came under fire over questions about prewar estimates of Iraq's stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction. But intelligence on Iraq's hidden procurement networks was confirmed.
    An initial accounting by the Pentagon in the months after the fall of Baghdad revealed that Saddam covertly acquired between 650,000 and 1 million tons of conventional weapons from foreign sources. The main suppliers were Russia, China and France.
    By contrast, the U.S. arsenal is between 1.6 million and 1.8 million tons.
    As of last year, Iraq owed France an estimated $4 billion for arms and infrastructure projects, according to French government estimates. U.S. officials thought this massive debt was one reason France opposed a military operation to oust Saddam.
    The fact that illegal deals continued even as war loomed indicated France viewed Saddam's regime as a future source of income.

Amnesty international

Who armed Iraq?
Syria
According to reports in early 2003, military equipment – from truck tyres to aircraft parts – was being brought into Iraq across the border from Syria and Jordan in trucks.

Most of the supplies allegedly came from East European countries and included Russian-made jet engines, refurbished Russian tank engines and Czech anti-aircraft cannons. Syrian weapons purchases for transfer to Iraq reportedly included refurbished T-55 tank engines and other replace-ment parts for T-72 tanks (from Bulgaria and Belarus); military trucks from Russia; and MiG29 airplanes and radar systems from Ukraine.

Bulgaria
November 2002: it is reported that the Bulgarian government had admitted that the Terem plant, in Turgovishte, had been sending armoured vehicles and spare parts to Iraq via Syria.

Belarus
January 2003: the Lebanese authorities seize a shipment of helmets and communications equipment that was shipped from Belarus and was destined for Iraq. Also reports that missile technology and possibly dual-use technology were supplied.

Bosnia
Bosnian Muslim companies were reportedly involved in the supply of munitions, explosives and heavy artillery.

Ukraine
July 2002: the Ukrainian parliament sets up a commission to investigate news reports suggesting that government officials participated in arms sales to Iraq in violation of UN sanctions, including radar stations worth US$100 million.

Serbia
October 2002: several reports highlight the central role Serbia played in arms exports to Iraq and the activities of Jugoimport, the state-owned arms export agency, in the supply of armour-piercing missiles, rockets, anti-tank ammunition, tank engines, various explosives, chemical stabilizers, and grenade launchers. Missile fuel, engine parts and technicians from a Bosnian Serb factory (eastern Bosnia) serviced Iraqi MiG 21 fighter planes.

Russia
The UN investigators found evidence that parts for long-range missiles were supplied to Iraq via a Palestinian middleman. Rosoboronexport, the Russian state-controlled arms export agency, maintained Baghdad sales offices despite the UN arms embargo.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2004, 02:37:34 PM »
April 11, 2003, 11:27PM
Iraq prepared to use children in battle
By SIG CHRISTENSON
Copyright 2003 San Antonio Express-News

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- The Army said Friday that it found evidence that Iraqi military officials were prepared to train children as young as 10 years old to fight in battle.

The 3rd Infantry Division's Task Force 3-69 discovered AK-47 rifles modified for a smaller-caliber bullet that produces a less powerful recoil when fired, green Iraqi army uniforms made for children, as well as propaganda inciting boys and old women to fight.


While there was no evidence that any children had been trained as soldiers, the Army has encountered teenage soldiers as it has taken prisoners. One civil affairs specialist, Spc. Robert Hall, 21, of Silverdale, Wash., said Iraqis chose conscripts on the basis of their size and health, rather than age.

"If they're 15 years old, they're tall and look good, they'll take them," Hall said.

The force also found caches of weapons and uniforms made by Russia, France, Germany and Jordan after the United Nations imposed an embargo on such items after the 1991 Gulf War.

All of the weapons, uniforms and propaganda books were seized within a mile of Saddam Hussein's Fao Palace, a huge building surrounded by a lake and more than 50 other buildings on the western edge of Baghdad.

Ten AK-47 rifles, all modified to fire .22-caliber bullets rather than the larger, 7.62mm ammunition they typically use, were found in a large arms room less than a quarter-mile from a two-story school. Each rifle included a smaller, circular device inserted into the barrel along with .22-caliber magazines manufactured specifically for use in the modified assault weapon.

Lt. Col. Rock Marcone of the 3rd Infantry did know how many students -- if any -- had been trained to fight and said none of them had been found. However, he said an Army team found identification documents containing the names of 10 children and their ages. The youngest was 10, the oldest 13.

It couldn't be immediately determined where the magazines were made, but thousands of .22-caliber rounds produced last year in Bosnia-Herzegovina were found in the room, as were hundreds of standard AK-47s and cases of rocket-propelled grenades, known in military parlance as RPGs.

Five radios, a number of antennas and two demolition kits made in Germany were found as the searches ensued, along with French-made uniform accessories that included ammunition pouches and fighting load vests used to carry ammunition, bayonets, canteens and first aid kits.

There was no evidence that Russia, France, Germany and Jordan sold the weapons directly to Iraq in violation of the U.N. embargo, but Marcone said there was no question that they were manufactured after the 1991 war.

Such equipment, as well as automatic weapons and small arms, are readily available on the world weapons markets. Despite sanctions imposed against the Balkan nations during the Bosnian war, smuggling of arms and equipment was commonplace.
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Offline Jasta

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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2004, 02:52:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by crowMAW
What ties?  Where are you getting this $500k to Al-Zawahiri from Saddam info?  I hope you have something other than a NewsMax or Weekly Standard article.


The specific information regarding Zawahiri comes from a Guantanamo Bay detainee who was captured in Afghanistan in early 2002. Names are withheld, but that comes from the CIA. British intelligence supports this.

The 30k to palestinian terrorists bit comes directly from the Israeli Defense Forces based in Tel Aviv.

Offline crowMAW

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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2004, 03:59:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jasta
The specific information regarding Zawahiri comes from a Guantanamo Bay detainee who was captured in Afghanistan in early 2002. Names are withheld, but that comes from the CIA. British intelligence supports this.

Where was it reported?

Offline crowMAW

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Re: here's one..
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2004, 04:02:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
WARSAW (Reuters) - Polish troops in Iraq have found four French-built advanced anti-aircraft missiles which were built this year, a Polish Defense Ministry spokesman told Reuters Friday.

You mean the ones that Poland recanted saying that they were mistaken as to the age, rather they were left-over from before the 1st Gulf War and were useless without the launch vehicle?

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/2137676

Offline Rino

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Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2004, 04:04:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
The problem with the narrow viewed conservatism in this forum, is its hate list is so long - its starts to stink of whacko.

Its become common to attack any non-US citizen. I think some are going over the deep end.


     Well the left has a much easier target, as the right actually
went ahead and DID something.  Easy to sit on the sidelines
and whine while doing jack squat.
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Offline straffo

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2004, 04:28:24 PM »
DREDIOCK & Eagler I did warn you :

Quote
Originally posted by straffo
And please don't dig up the "Polish troop have found French weapon" but unfortunatly destroyed it ...


Why did you dig again this story prooved wrong by the Pole themselves ?

You're masochist ?