HO's and chute shooting

[hblair]

Ok, HO's are gonna happen. We all do them on occasion. If I'm caught on the deck with 3 bad guys trying to send me to my death, I will take a HO shot, anything to try to get out of the situation, is usually a last resort type of thing.

But that is just about the only situation I will take the HO shot. (except for a few HO's with WD a week or two ago which were just fun and games   )

That being said...

Last night I took off from a remote airfield to grab altitude and try to get above the bad guys. I'm cruising at 18,000 ft. as I wade into enemy territory. I spot a con to my level 12. We merge, of course I have to avoid his HO attempt to immellman onto his 6. That happened several times. Coalt merge and they all go for the HO. Does anyone not know ANY ACM? or did I just run into a pack of newbies? Whats up with that?

And Chute shooters, whats the point?

I logged back on late for a sortie or two, I take off, spot 2 or 3 bad guys, I'm able to kill one, he bails, as I'm fighting the other F4U, I look around for help. My moron countryman is in a fight with the parachute of the guy I just shot down! He kills him as the F4U gets the advantage on me. Whats up with that?

Maybe the chute molesting preteens will be gone in a few days  

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hblair,
<===< The ASSASSINS >===>
 

[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 02-02-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

I can answer that, when I fly a FW190, if I co-alt merge with ANY AH A/C, and go into ACM with them, I'm pretty much dead meat, my only hope is to take a HO on them, and hope I wound or kill them in first pass, otherwise, I must just continue to run to find someone I have alt advantage over.

In regards to HO'ing, look at it this way, if you were in a situation where a person turns around to face you with a gun in their hands with intent to shoot you, and you yourself have a gun in your hand, would you try to run by that person ducking to get out of the way, or would you shoot back with your gun?  In other words, can you trust him NOT to shoot so that you may be behind him to make a shot from behind?

If you point your weapon at me, I point my back.

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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Defected~)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
   Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977

[Dingy]

Well I agree with ya HBlair...the HO should really be a last ditch effort.  I was accosted last night for announcing over Ch. 1 that I thought the HO that took me out was a "Cheap HO".  

I also agree with Rip insofar as HO's ought to be used as a last ditch effort.  Last nights "cheap HO" was by a higher 109 who decided to blow past my lower/slower Nik bellybutton and then reverse with an E advantage for a HO.  Figuring the HO was a viable option for me at that point (I had better guns and was in a low-E predicament) I allowed the HO.  We both died in the HO.

What was cheap about that HO?  Well that 109 pilot could have gotten the kill just as easily AND continued to fly safely if he just used his E advantage and worked for a rear quarter shot.  Instead, he went for the headon and got the kill but died in the process.  Sounds kinda "expensive" to me tho    Guess thats what Fats meant by "Whats an Expensive HO?"  

-Ding

[Hristo]

In many many level merges I met only couple of opponents who actually avoided the HO. Most of the time it was me avoiding it, while even planes like 109 or P 51 went for it while I was in 190.

Going for HO from co-E and d30+ ranges clearly marks someone as a newbie, IMO.

As for chute strafing, that's an old one.

 
The latest one for me was after a level chase. I was low and fast, and constantly being dived upon by higher Spits. I stayed until there was an E parity and looped back to cross paths with my pursuers. It worked few times, they'd do lead turn but lose me after it. Bad thing was that after each such pass there were more and more Spits diving in, so I ended with 6-7 after me. I guess they were pretty angry not being able to catch my G-10. Then one P 51 dove in, so I did the same trick. Again it worked. But when another P 51 dove, it was inevitable. He was too close for reversal and a hill was in front me. I turned and both Ponies caught up on me and shot me and I bailed.

Then angry Spits arrived. Well, what to say, my chute wasn't in very good condition after they finished with me.

[Ripsnort]

Hristo, good story!  Hehe, so they took their anger out on the ol' silk eh? LOL!  Pull the rip chord right before you hit the ground, less exposure to ENEMA gun fire..hehe, but you already know that!

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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Defected~)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
   Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977

[Swager]

Depending on the situation and the airframe.

I will HO!  Don't get me wrong, I will do it, but I do not like to.  If I can find a way to engage other than a HO, I'll take it.  I'll even run if needs be.

Many times I find myself in dire straights.  With bad guys gunnin for a piece of swag.  I will do anything to get away and if I can't, I will HO until the moon is blue or I flame, which ever comes first.

Rip typed my exact opinion about the FW190.  If I'm riding one and at a tactical disadvantage, with the 190 firepower I will HO.  If you are foolish enough to get caught in a HO with a FW190 that has a tactical disadvantage then you get what you deserve.

Tried to explain this to someone over the comm channel and I was called a dweeb! If taking a HO in an attempt to extract myself from a bad situation makes me a dweeb, then so be it.  I knight myself Sir Dweeb. I do not have an ego that bruises easily.

I constantly get trounced by ace pilots who know intense ACM. So trust me, I will not feel one bit of remorse for getting a HO kill.  I have never been chatised by another pilots for performing a HO, but I have seen it on the comm channel. So if you get flamed in a HO with yours truely and want to type something nasty, please save yourself the effort, for you will not even come close to curling a hair on my head.

If your thinking. "Well Swager that is because you don't know squat about ACM."

Well I tell you sir, "Your right!"

Hblair, the countryman shooting the chute while you needed help is funny.  I had that happen to me.  I have never shot a chute.  I've seen people lose an alt advantage to strafe a chute. Strange!

There are two types of pilots in air combat:  bastards and suckers, take your pick!

[Kats]

The rules are: There are no rules. Who is anyone to tell anyone esle that their style of ACM (and an HO is a legitimate tactic if you have a gun advantage and good technique) is not sporting?

As far as chute shooting, well it's only a game - so whatever turns you on......

[funked]

Hblair, I get the impression there are still a lot of guys learning merge techniques in Aces High.  In the absence of a plan for the merge, they try an HO.

Personally it's fine with me.  I duck under them, then zoom as they go stabbing past with their guns blazing.  9 out of 10 times I can half loop, roll level, then come down on their six as they try a flat turn or keep flying straight.

I've seen a few guys that have a clue on the merge, but usually it's tracer city.  Like I said, fine with me, makes my life easier.  

[Sharky]

Ripsnort,

 

I can answer that, when I fly a FW190, if I co-alt merge with ANY AH A/C, and go into ACM with them, I'm pretty much dead meat, my only hope is to take a HO on them, and hope I wound or kill them in first pass, otherwise, I must just continue to run to find someone I have alt advantage over.

So then a 190 co alt co e with any other plane is out of options and has no chance of winning the fight other than an HO?  I suggest you appoligize to some of the good 190 pilots who are sure to take offense at that statement    If you are refering just to yourself I suggest you change A/C or get some training.

Although I will agree that the 190 is one of the most challenging A/C to fly, both here and in WB, and I will also agree that there are few who have taken the time to really master the 190.  My plane of choice is the mustang, and without bragging I'm pretty handy in it.  However having said that I have already met a couple of Hotel Sierra FW190 pilots in AH that very coldly handed me my hat!

I'm not trying to flame ya here, but I think using the HO for a substitute for good ACM is going to hurt your progress in the long run.  I personnally like the HOers, if a guy is co-alt with me and presses the HO, I've already won the fight.  Just a matter of a lead turn to end the battle.

Sharky


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You can run, but you just die tired.

[Hangtime]

If I have E, time and friendlies of known capabilities close about; then it's a pre-turn at the merge fer me to get a fun angles fight.. Why HO? (and I'll try at least one turn with anything).

In the first few moves the opponent can either demonstrate his ability to use the tools.. or he's dead. If he's got a good grip on the situation and has the E necessary to force the issue to his advantage... well then I'll dive out & extend; and set about using the Mustang's B&Z ability; if the friendlies havn't already decided the issue in the drag.

If I'm at a tactical disadvantage at the merge; then I'm boring in.. living thru a HO with a Mustang is a rare occurance.. but when I getcha.. I GOTCHA.   It's better than bein run down 45 seconds later and bein ripped to shreds from behind.

I'm a firm beliver in a agressive offense when there's a minumum escape oportunity. My optimum shot in these circumstances is usually a slighly off HO snap shot on the 1st or second merge. I'll rarely opt to go for givin the guy a look at my bare naked bellybutton when I'm already outta E, particularly when I can show him my 6 guns instead.    (the pony wont even out accelerate the sheep.. so take the shot)

In short; when low on options and altitude, or at a tactical disadvantage then NOTHIN else sets the tone for the 'that's it, chips down!' fight better than forcing the other guy to sweat a HO. On more than few occasions, the other guy's dodge was all I needed to buy back a few cashed chips..

Finally.. there's the "OH CRAP!" HO... last night; while tooling around north of F3 I was doing a bit of typing; looked up and discovered a 109; dead level 12:00, D3 out and roaring in... "OH CRAP!" I stabbed the rudder; squeezed the tit, and blew the guy outta the sky. Stunned the hell outta me. Musta looked like a 'Cheap HO' to him... but it was an "OH CRAP!" HO to me.  

Salute!

Hang

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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8

[Yeager]

My moron countryman is in a fight with the parachute of the guy I just shot down!
====
This my man, is the stuff of legends!

LOL

Yeager  

[Sharky]

Hangtime,

 

I'm a firm beliver in a agressive offense when there's a minumum escape oportunity. My optimum shot in these circumstances is usually a slighly off HO snap shot on the 1st or second merge. I'll rarely opt to go for givin the guy a look at my bare naked bellybutton when I'm already outta E, particularly when I can show him my 6 guns instead.  (the pony wont even out accelerate the sheep.. so take the shot)

If you can force the HO you can escape in the pony.  Currently in the area the pony is top dog in speed, by forcing the HO you make the other guy either go high to retain the advantage or he has to pull a 180 degree turn to get back on your six.  Either way it gains you the time and seperation to unload the stick and accelerate to speed.  Also don't be fooled if he initally starts gaining on you.  As you said the sheep accelerate faster than the pony and this will show up on your FE as him gaining slowly at first but he will soon hit his top speed and well....that just isn't enough unless he is in a pony to and at worse he'll get no closer.  At best once you back up to 300 ias or so, turn around and kill him  

Oh and one other thing.  Never run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas all at the same time  

Sharky

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You can run, but you just die tired.

[Hangtime]

LOL.. I'll make a note of that.