Islam = Peace!

[GreenCloud]

waht the hell??

Another fact is that non-combatants are getting hurt and killed on both sides by both sides, as evident on 9/11, Madrid, and almost every day in Iraq. Even if the "coalition" forces try to avoid civilian casualties they have so far matched or even exceeded the number killed by terrorists/insurgents since 9/11 (Iraq invasion included).

see this is where i would love to pee on you..

We dont aim for kids and famlies..They do

I find it disgusting that you compare our military to there force of arms..


They bomb busses on purpose. western world does not. Is that hard for you to understand?

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by GreenCloud
We dont aim for kids and famlies..They do

I'm sure that's cold comfort for the families of the people that die.

I find it disgusting that you compare our military to there force of arms..

Anything can be compared, they can also be contrasted.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GScholz
The other side of that coin is of course that if the police are sympathetic to the antagonists they may choose to look the other way. This seems to be the case here. In either case it is repugnant, but this does not justify the title of this thread.

The title of the thread offends you?

[GRUNHERZ]

Despite all this smart arsed talk the simple irrefutible fact is that Islam has been approriated by these global terrorist movements as a central, as the central tenent of their theoiries.  The fact that minstream islam has not rejected this abuse of their faith in any significant or meaningful way is an outrage and a blot on the religion whole.

[Saurdaukar]

AMERISTALKERENVASHUN!!!!!!!!!1111111111111

[Neubob]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Despite all this smart arsed talk the simple irrefutible fact is that Islam has been approriated by these global terrorist movements as a central, as the central tenent of their theoiries.  The fact that minstream islam has not rejected this abuse of their faith in any significant or meaningful way is an outrage and a blot on the religion whole.

Very well put, Mr. Grunherz. I couldn't agree more. Inasmuch as we cannot incriminate every Muslim for the actions of their fanatic bretheren, those who do nothing to publically denounce this behavior will never be fully innocent.

On that note, I'd like to give a quick salute to the Israelis for a job well done: Another Hamas cockroach crushed
Some of you will say that this is just another step in a never-ending cycle of violence. I say way to go for remaining steadfast and vigilant.

PS: Will somebody explain to me what an Ameristalker is?

[rpm]

There always has been and there always will be religious extremests, on all sides. People today forget "The Spanish Inquisition". Not one of Christianity's high points. I really believe at the core of most religions is peace and understanding. The problem is all the people you have to kill to reach it.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by rpm
There always has been and there always will be religious extremests, on all sides. People today forget "The Spanish Inquisition". Not one of Christianity's high points. I really believe at the core of most religions is peace and understanding. The problem is all the people you have to kill to reach it.

Stalin's purge wasn't one of atheism's high points either though it was significantly more murderous and much more recent.

[Momus--]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Despite all this smart arsed talk the simple irrefutible fact is that Islam has been approriated by these global terrorist movements as a central, as the central tenent of their theoiries.  The fact that minstream islam has not rejected this abuse of their faith in any significant or meaningful way is an outrage and a blot on the religion whole.

And how many "mainstream" muslims did you question to reach this shaky conclusion? Here in the UK, the moderate Muslim Council of Great Britain is always going on the record condemning the lastest outrage perpetrated by the extremists. It was moderate muslims took steps to have the vile Abu Hamza removed from Finsbury Park Mosque not so long ago. "Moderate muslims" from Britain formed a recent delegation to Iraq to negotiate for the lives of hostages. If these events and many like them in other sections of the world muslim population aren't being reported in the US media then you have to ask your self why. Either that or you're just not looking hard enough.

[GRUNHERZ]

They are but its not enough and its not meaningful.

Obviously there are differences in freedom  of expression but until I see a level of disguist, dissent or rejection of the islamic terror  even remotely comporable in fact or sprit to the iraq war protests from the big islamic nations like indonesia, egypt, pakisatan (where plenty feel free to protest for bin laden) then its all window dressing....  

Moreover, where are the big islamic authorities mecca on this issue? Where are the fatwas against bin laden?  Where the fatwas against the kidnappings, the beaheadings? The suicide bombings?  Oh sure, there are some vague "ho hum yea yea bin laden you know that guy kinda sort of hes not too great, BUT...."  And for a religion whoose high leaders have happily put death sentances on book writers that sort of mediocre vague and indecisave comment  just doesnt cut it...

So yes, obviously some muslims - especially some in the west - are not happy, but none of it is signinficant enough and impactful enough on a world scale...  

I'm waiting for even the start, even an inkling of genuine, real, globe spanning muslim outrage at this bastardization of their religion. And brother, both of us know it's not there, not even close...

This hijacking of their religion  is a cancer on islam and unfortunately, at best, the world of islam is largely ignoring it...

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by AKIron
Stalin's purge wasn't one of atheism's high points either though it was significantly more murderous and much more recent.

Assuming of course Atheism was the primary reasoning behind the purges, which of course it wasn't.
Class destruction, paranoia, state terrorism and political ideology were Stalin's gospel.

Originally posted by GScholz
There is a religious war. It's between Muslim extremists and Christian/Jewish extremists. Most of it is just harsh words, but may they all die painfully.

Bet the Hindu extremists are annoyed they are left out. They kill plenty of both and don't even get a mention....

 Tronsky

[Dowding]

On the one hand, Grunherz, you'll complain of biased media reporting selectively showing one side of the story and missing key events or reports on Iraq that show it to be the next Tuscany.

Yet, you don't for a minute stop to think that maybe this same selective reporting can be applied to alot of other issues, including the supposed lack of condemnation in the Muslim world. Strange how when the media wants a Muslim's opinion on an issue they ask the Abu Hamzas of this world, and not some accountant from Sussex. Far less alarming and sensationalist.

Like Momus mentions, the British Council of Muslims has repeatedly condemned the beheadings of the hostages (I posted the link a while back for the one relating to the killing of Richard Pearl). It goes unreported for the most part, but it is there.

[Momus--]

Grun, Islam isn't some monolithic religious organization like the catholic church or the chruch of england, with a pope or archbishop to make pronouncements on behalf of the entire congregation. It is probably the most splintered and factional of all the worlds religions, so to expect statements from "the big islamic authorities" isn't going to happen, because such a thing doesn't exist.

They are but its not enough and its not meaningful.

Says who? You? Excuse me if I disagree:

"Muslim condemnation of terrorist attacks almost universal" says this (Jesuit) academic.

Council on Islamic-American Relations condemns attacks

Muslim Americans condemn attacks

Islamic Scholars denouce Bin-Laden

Bin Laden's idea of Jihad wrong say Muslim Scholars

British muslims condem 911 attacks

Canadian Muslims condemn 911 attacks

Miscellaneous condemnations of the 911 attacks from across the islamic world, including "Fatwas" from Egyptian and Saudi Islamic authorities.

Bid Laden's violence is heresy against Islam

It took me about 30 seconds to find these references and I could have posted ten times as many. I guess I was right and you just haven't tried that hard to dispell your own preconceptions.