Things that make you go hmmmmm

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

No, you are arriving at that one.

Pressure was applied for them to not use them.

Ripsnort, wow - I didn't know Israel invaded Iraq. I also didn't know there were UN inspectors poking around in Iraq in 1982.

This is amazing, I'm getting one helluva great history lesson here.
-SW

[Martlet]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
No, you are arriving at that one.

Pressure was applied for them to not use them.

 

So they HAD the pieces of a nuke program, but they were PRESSURED into not using them, then they disappeared.

I get it.  We couldn't pressure them into letting us their program, but we could pressure them into not using it.


Riiiiiiight.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

And another thing, we went in there to get rid of - as in prevent them from being used - bio, chem and nuclear weapons... hell, even the agents that could potentially used to make them.

We found very little chemical, very little biological, and no nuclear because the nuclear grew legs and ran off.

How fantastic, we're doing a great job of keeping that stuff out of the hands of terrorists.
-SW

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Yeah Martlet, it's amazing that it disappeared well after we invaded.

Prior to this, they were pieces not being used.

Now, well who the **** knows.
-SW

[Martlet]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Yeah Martlet, it's amazing that it disappeared well after we invaded.

Prior to this, they were pieces not being used.

Now, well who the **** knows.
-SW

Nah, what I find amazing is that you believe he had pieces for a nuke program that he wasn't using because he was a good boy, but wouldn't let us inspect them to make sure.

[Toad]

Duelfer report supports Bush's view

Anyone else read this?

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Ripsnort, wow - I didn't know Israel invaded Iraq. I also didn't know there were UN inspectors poking around in Iraq in 1982.

This is amazing, I'm getting one helluva great history lesson here.
-SW

Sorry, it was 1981. Never too late to learn though Wulfe. Stick around, you might learn something.

At 6:35 p.m. local time on 7 June 1981 eight Israeli F-16 Falcons appeared out of the sunset approaching al-Tuwaitha. In 80 seconds 13 bombs blew a hole in the concrete dome of Tammuz-1 and exploded inside, completely demolishing the reactor core, and the reactor building down to its foundations. The attack was carried out before the reactor had gone critical so no radiation was released. It was still some time before the reactor would have begun operation - the enriched uranium fuel had not been loaded in the reactor, and was unharmed by the attack.

Operation Babylon - the Israeli attack on Tammuz-1 was carried out by eight F-16s and six F-15 Eagles to provide air cover. This was the longest range attack in Israeli Air Force history, 1100 km, at the extreme limit of combat range of the F-16 fighter-bombers. Mid-air refueling could not be carried out for the return leg of the mission, since they might be pursued by hostile fighter, so the F-16s had to be "clean" (i.e. in a minimum drag configuration). At the time of the attack it was widely reported that laser guided bombs had been used, given the precision of the bombing: one bomb blew a hole in the reactor containment vessel, the other bombs were lobbed through the hole, only one bomb fell elsewhere (this was repeated for example in [Ostrovsky and Hoy 1990]). In fact laser guided bombs were not used, the drag produced by the laser designator pods was too much. Instead it was simply carried out by precision visual bombing.

The attack was carried out at sunset. There were several advantages to this timing. The attack came out of the setting sun, minimizing the opportunity for Iraqi air defenses at the site to detect them visually. The target easy to spot for visual attack with the near-horizontal sunlight illuminating the light colored dome for the approaching F-16s. But the principal reason that Israel has given for the time of day for the attack timing was that if any aircraft were lost it would permit the Israelis to conduct search-and-rescue missions under the cover of darkness. Also Israel has emphasized that it planned the attack to minimize casualties - attacking the reactor before it began operation and became radioactive, and when its civilian operators were expected to be absent.

Hamza provides a very useful Iraqi view of the attack. One interesting revelation he offers is that the Iraqi missile battery was shut down at the time. The crew had the habit of taking dinner and leaving their post at 6 p.m., shutting off the missile radar. The Israeli attack was timed such that the aircraft came into range of the radar several minutes after it had been shut-off. This clearly indicates that Israel had intelligence about the behavior of the missile crew, and that this was a critical factor in planning the attack.

According to Hamza the French appear to have had foreknowledge of the attack and deliberately vacated the plant. The French had offices adjacent to the reactor but chose to hold a meeting with mandatory attendance at their residential village away from the site at 5 p.m. that day. One of the technicians had refused to attend, and the other Frenchmen were so insistent that a scuffle ensued. Nonetheless, he stayed behind and died in the bombing.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Oh, 1981 - you intentionally said 1982 to throw me off?

I was off by a year, oh no - too bad I already knew about the strike.

Maybe you should just go to another thread, you never provide anything of worth.

Martlet, it isn't clear what pieces he had - what I find amazing is you associate nuclear material and parts with the immediate ability to produce weapons.
-SW

[Martlet]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe

Martlet, it isn't clear what pieces he had - what I find amazing is you associate nuclear material and parts with the immediate ability to produce weapons.
-SW

Where did I say that?

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Okay, so then you are for invading Iraq because they may have had a nuclear reactor?
-SW

[Martlet]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Okay, so then you are for invading Iraq because they may have had a nuclear reactor?
-SW

No, my support of the invasion of Iraq has to do with the information we had at the time, not armchair quarterbacking with 20/20 hindsight.  Any idiot can do that.  Even Kerry.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Now that the intelligence/information has proven to be wrong, and in some instances was known to be wrong and out of date back then, you still support invading Iraq?

When proven to be wrong, you won't change your opinion and begin to question the administration? Only an idiot would do that.
-SW

[Saurdaukar]

I guess we should be thankful that we're not discussing Vietnam anymore, right?

[Martlet]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Now that the intelligence/information has proven to be wrong, and in some instances was known to be wrong and out of date back then, you still support invading Iraq?

When proven to be wrong, you won't change your opinion and begin to question the administration? Only an idiot would do that.
-SW

It's kind of late to go back and change what you did, isn't it?

What would you have them do, give Saddam a big sorry, ship him back, and come on home?

Only an idiot can't see that.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Saurdauker is diverting the thread to Vietnam, why don't you give him **** for that Martlet?

Or are you just gonna push his **** in?
-SW