Author Topic: Kill Shoot...Dont Be Stupid... (Read 2211 times)

dedalos · « **Reply #15 on:** October 13, 2004, 08:51:16 AM »

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Originally posted by sling322
So....lemme get this straight....

You were behind a spit and you opened fire.....a high Pony dives down and crosses into your bullet stream.....

And you didnt see the Pony above you? Sounds like you need to work on your SA. Now if the Pony was below you....you may have a gripe. But then again....if you fly as part of the horde, you should expect others to fight over the same kill as you. **** happens as they say.

So, while trying to line up a shot on the bud guy, you need to track friendlies at the same time too? Lets say he knew it 51 was above him. What should he do, break off the attack because the 51 may dive in at some point or keep his eyes on the friendly instead of the bud guy?

The guy just asked a question. There is no need for these attacks.

FiLtH · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2004, 08:59:23 AM »

I liked the AW system better. The way it works here, it never trains a guy to stay out of the way if a guy is shooting. They figure wth I'll just slide in at try for the kill, I wont die, just the shooter will. In AW although the shooter would get a PNG if he shot a friendly down twice, the "victim" would die...making him think twice about "sliding in". It trained him to stay clear.

Tilt · « **Reply #17 on:** October 13, 2004, 09:07:54 AM »

You remained png (for 24 hours) which ever country you flew for

I can only recount the effect png (after to freindly kills) had on another game in another time.............

1) Folk did not dive infront of other folk who were saddled cos it was considered dangerous and rude..................

2) Folk did not try to shoot over the shoulder of other folk because it was obvious when they did it and killed a freindly and they were going to have to appologise or at least suffer critique. As well as move one step closer to PNG.

3) Accidents did happen in each case the shooter was one step nearer PNG and had to be care ful and the victim was unceremoniously rtb'd. Newbies had more accidents that vets but were quickly "educated" on channel. Folk had to be SA wary of "accidents".

4) Abuse did happen (rarely and mostly infamously) I can rem some one being so P'ed off that he changed contries and vulched two (now ally) oponents on their own runway. This was pretty infamous.

Also its obvious that some times rude perpetrators of 1) above were some times shot out the way by pilots who were running a clean sheet.

As I said latterly AW also introduced kill shooter (not by that name) which could be switched on or off (in arena settings) just as in AH now.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #18 on:** October 13, 2004, 09:11:48 AM »

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Originally posted by JB66
If I remember correctly, the system in AW was if you killshoot two friendlies, you get Persona Non Grata (png) and couldn't fly for your country for a limited amount of time.
.

It was you could fly but you couldnt have any bullets/bombs

Alpo · « **Reply #19 on:** October 13, 2004, 09:18:58 AM »

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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
sling brings up a valid point here

... I don't think so. While SA is the act of being aware of everything around you, I don't think it implies I have to worry about the farging cherry picker camped 4k above waiting for me to burn this guys E state to nothing.

TC, YOU on the other hand have it exactly right.

Quote

Originally posted by TequilaChaser
#1 - fly smart , give courtesy to your fellow flyer and don't invade his fight unless he needs help or calls for it
#2 - Call in on a bandit, if someone else calls in, do not engage, fly high cap and support the engaged friendly, wait til needed
#3- if you see some one in a dogfight low, and then see another dive in, and another....speak out...hey 1 should do, 2 is enough, 3 is more than enough, 4 of you on him is easy prey for the incoming Bandits stay high and lets fly high cover for these other low 3 flyers so they don't get bounced....or something of the sort

I laugh my butt off everytime I see a conga line form on a P51 or La7. That's just silly... a simple "Are you closing on him? Should I dive down to turn him?" will often suffice.

As far as the thread subject... I say the cherry picker should die to the hail of bullets. I shouldn't have to watch for red icons and stupid green ones closing fast as well.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #20 on:** October 13, 2004, 09:22:05 AM »

Just some notification from me.
If you can steal my kill BEFORE I've actually shot him down then do it.

no need to apologise for it and
You wont get a complaint or a whine from me.
im more concerned THAT the enemy plane dies then who gets credit for it.

The only thing I object to is after I've blasted a wing off the plane and he's going down and someone chases it down to get those last final shots in it to claim it from himself.

Untill that happens far as Im concerned he's fair game to everyone.
If you can jump in front of me and get the shot, go for it.
i know how to let my finger off the trigger button
If I get killshooter (which VERY rarely happens because I know how to let go of the trigger) It's my own fault.

Alpo · « **Reply #21 on:** October 13, 2004, 09:25:28 AM »

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Originally posted by Tilt
You remained png (for 24 hours) which ever country you flew for

I can only recount the effect png (after to freindly kills) had on another game in another time.............

You forgot a classic...

5) Low altitude bombing was a great way to get a "vacation". Fully gunned B17... bomb drop too low, BOOM... six friendly kills in a heartbeat (three days off)

hitech · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2004, 09:52:18 AM »

I don't even want to think of the response after the first 262 dies to freindly fire.

And I like the kill shoot system better then air warriors system.

Infact I disliked the PNG system so much I invented the Kill shooter system. Still have fond memories of having my first 13 kill mission, flying back , no enemies in the sector, and low and behold here comes a newbie from dead 6 to shoots me down.

Zanth · « **Reply #23 on:** October 13, 2004, 10:00:46 AM »

It is not too smart to get killed by kill shooter. Had an idiot come from under me a couple of nights ago in a fast plane, get kill shooter, and get all bent out of shape about it. If kill shooter had been off, I would have gotten killed by someone I didn't (couldn't) even see because he was starving for a kill and hell bent on firing his guns. Totally his own damn fault, it wouldnt be fair to penalize someone else for something like this.

I can't remember the last time I was kill shootered, and I am sujre it is not even 3 times in the whole time I have played this game. It ain't perfect but it is better than any alternative ever proposed in the past 1,000 time this topic has been rehashed when someone didn't use the search function and post about it again.

Tilt · « **Reply #24 on:** October 13, 2004, 10:19:11 AM »

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Originally posted by hitech

Infact I disliked the PNG system so much I invented the Kill shooter system. Still have fond memories of having my first 13 kill mission, flying back , no enemies in the sector, and low and behold here comes a newbie from dead 6 to shoots me down.

LOL did you forgive him?

were you a nice soldier?

hang on........ a Fubar?

never mind........

Tilt · « **Reply #25 on:** October 13, 2004, 10:24:02 AM »

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Originally posted by Alpo
You forgot a classic...

5) Low altitude bombing was a great way to get a "vacation". Fully gunned B17... bomb drop too low, BOOM... six friendly kills in a heartbeat (three days off)

Hail Alpovich!

You did that?? naughty Sky Night

DamnedRen · « **Reply #26 on:** October 13, 2004, 11:56:25 AM »

Anyone who knowingly flies through another countryman who is within 200-300 yards of an enemy plane deserves to be the one who dies for being such a points potato. At that range the guy is gonna be shooting and specifically flying through him only shows how low some people can get. There is no way you will fly through someone who is in heavy maneuvering, without really trying to do it, meaning that's no accident.

What does all this mean? HT made a point that he likes this system as a result of his own anger at being shot down. It works because most noob's may take a shot at the nearest guy, be it countryman or enemy. And the normal odds of someone popping in front of your firing guns are low because as I said above it takes work to actually get your plane to fly through a guy in front of you in the course of a normal dogfight unless you specifically look to do it. Again, don't misunderstand. Accidents do happen but there is a difference.

That being said I disagree with HT concerning this setup. There is a lessor of the two evils and was used very effectively in another game. It's been said and involves a second look by HT.

Put in the 24 hour rule. If you shoot at a friendly with enough damage to knock him down you get no ammo for 24 hours. Period. You don't die, he doesn't die. You take the night off or change sides. End of story.

Besides, if some guy is so low that he intentionally flies into your bullet stream wouldn't you like to change sides and hunt him down?

sling322 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 13, 2004, 11:57:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by TequilaChaser

#1 - fly smart , give courtesy to your fellow flyer and don't invade his fight unless he needs help or calls for it
#2 - Call in on a bandit, if someone else calls in, do not engage, fly high cap and support the engaged friendly, wait til needed
#3- if you see some one in a dogfight low, and then see another dive in, and another....speak out...hey 1 should do, 2 is enough, 3 is more than enough, 4 of you on him is easy prey for the incoming Bandits stay high and lets fly high cover for these other low 3 flyers so they don't get bounced....or something of the sort

it is up to the community to change the community....either there is a problem and we need to fix it.or we all shut up and carry on with the way things are going.....

my more than 0.02 worth

Heh....like that is ever going to happen. I am just giving my opinion on what you need to do in order to keep from getting killshootered (?). Real pilots in real life or death situations fighting against a real enemy will certainly give that kind of courtesy to each other. Hell its part of their training. But expecting a group of computer geeks flying planes on a computer screen to act in this way is ridiculous. It will never happen. Given that, you have to learn to be able to handle a higher level of SA so that you can keep track of where the friendlies are also.

sling322 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 13, 2004, 11:59:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos
So, while trying to line up a shot on the bud guy, you need to track friendlies at the same time too? Lets say he knew it 51 was above him. What should he do, break off the attack because the 51 may dive in at some point or keep his eyes on the friendly instead of the bud guy?

The guy just asked a question. There is no need for these attacks.

My response was in no way meant to be an attack and I dont know why you viewed it that way. I am simply saying that in this online environment you need to have a much higher level of SA because you cant expect total strangers in a computer flight simulation game to fly with the courtesy that TequilaChaser mentioned in his post above. Its simply not going to happen unless you happen to be flying with only your squadmates around you and you are working closely together to coordinate. The MA is every man for himself and thats the way most folks will fly.

Karnak · « **Reply #29 on:** October 13, 2004, 12:04:05 PM »

DamnedRen,

You seem to be assuming that what you see on your FE is the same as what the friendly who just flew through you sees on his FE.

In reality, for all you know, he has been in front of you the whole time on his FE and from his perspective you've been encroaching on him.

Because of the difference in what is on each FE the responisbility of what happens on your FE, which is unique from all other FEs, must be on you.