Tell me again how Iraq was the wrong war?

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Drediock, the government decieved us. How far up it went, with knowledge of using bad intel, I can't say.
-SW

Thats speculation. Possible yes but still speculation

Even the Iraqis thought they had WMDs

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040709-073537-1396r.htm

Not so much speculation.
-SW

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040709-073537-1396r.htm

Not so much speculation.
-SW

Bad intel may = misleading intel

Bad intel doesnt = being intentionally misled

the only ones seeming to draw that conclusion are the Democrats.
Which somehow doesnt surprise me.

I suspect that had it been Gore in office and in the same situation the Republicans would be drawing the same conclusions

According to a news report I saw  yesterday there were 4 seperate investigations on the matter in England and none found any evidence of Blair being intentionally misleading.

 And thats the real sticking point. is were we, was everyone including the administration intentionally misled?

Did the Administration intentionally mislead?

While it is possible on both counts if true I would tend to think the former is more the case then the latter.

But thats just my speculation

and hindsight is always 20/20

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Bad intel may = misleading intel

Bad intel doesnt = being intentionally misled

It could be either, depends just how bad someone wants to use it.

Hindsight is 20/20 for the public... foresight is usually 20/20 or damn close for the intelligence community.
-SW

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Bad intel may = misleading intel

Bad intel doesnt = being intentionally misled

It could be either, depends just how bad someone wants to use it.

Hindsight is 20/20 for the public... foresight is usually 20/20 or damn close for the intelligence community.
-SW

In light of everything. Is it really?
Or have we just placed too much faith in that community

On thinking about it. Is it possible the Intel Community was misled themselves by the Iraqis.

After all we did supposedly have people inside when we were trying tohit Saddam during the war.
Is it possible the Iraqis themselves misled intentionally or otherwise our intel services in order to get rid of Saddam?

Wouldnt be the first conspiracy to oust him and I would imagine that alot of our intel came from the Iraqis themselves

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

It's possible, but then I don't think we were really operating our intel community as intensely within, or concerning Iraq, as we were in and around the middle east searching for Osama for the past 10 or so years.

For example : There was an abundance of evidence within our intelligence community that a terrorist attack was imminent, and how it would be carried out. Unfortunately, there were no red flags for this information which would have led to investigating this data and potentially identifying what to expect.
-SW

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
It's possible, but then I don't think we were really operating our intel community as intensely within, or concerning Iraq, as we were in and around the middle east searching for Osama for the past 10 or so years.

For example : There was an abundance of evidence within our intelligence community that a terrorist attack was imminent, and how it would be carried out. Unfortunately, there were no red flags for this information which would have led to investigating this data and potentially identifying what to expect.
-SW

Have this under another thread called 911 timeline
http://www.wanttoknow.info/9-11timeline60pg

[anonymous]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Well, for a start I was talking about Cambodia, to your response to Boroda's. You specificly talked about the execution of teachers, educated people etc, that was the trait of Pol Pot's regime, not the Vietnamese.

Get your story straight first.

Also, given my from what my inlaws told me, and the fact that one side of my "extended" family is in fact from Vietnam, there were obviously attrocities carried out, but not on a huge scale. They won the war, then they beat the snot of those they saw as their opposition. IIRC the USA and South Vietnamese weren't exactly angels during the war, if you won a war and came across someone that booted your brother out of a Huey at a 1000 feet I'm guessing you might decide to inflict a little karma too.

 

As far as the US link to Vietnam goes, you might try attending an adult education clas where you can learn to read, for your obviously obsessive yet simple mind heres what I said again:  "The Vietnamese "liberated" Cambodia in a similar fashion to how the US has "liberated" Iraq."

before you claim that the communist vietnamese didnt execute teachers and educated people in the reeducation camps id say you should read what the vietnamese survivors have to say about it instead of relying on the opinion of a couple of cambodians who havent documented a thing on the matter. i say youre wrong. just google "communist vietnam" +"reeducation camp" and try browsing and reading a little. theres plenty of first person accounts. i cant speak for the south vietnamese but there isnt a single verified account of us servicement tossing anyone out of a helicopter to "interrogate them". your "reality" appears to be heavily based on the movies. even if it did happen your ease with "instant karma" is pretty telling. i get it now. all those south vietnamese-well-they deserved what they got. and you werent talking about cambodia when you said "The Vietnamese did not kill teachers, or educated people, that was the Khmer Rouge." and then implied i was uneducated and uninformed on the matter. i say that there is ample proof that the communist reeducation policy targeted the teachers and educated people as well as others and you were not aware of this when you showed me how "smart" you were. i tried to be civil. do i have to go post all those links and quotes again?

[anonymous]

Originally posted by Vulcan
"The Vietnamese "liberated" Cambodia in a similar fashion to how the US has "liberated" Iraq."

what are the similarities? and by their own admission the leadership of communist vietnam didnt invade cambodia "to stop the killing".

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Bad intel may = misleading intel

Bad intel doesnt = being intentionally misled

the only ones seeming to draw that conclusion are the Democrats.
Which somehow doesnt surprise me.

It wasn't about bad intel, it was about overstating the intel.

CIA etc: Iraq probably has WMD.

Bush Adminstration:  Iraq has WMD.

See the difference?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Elfie
Boroda it appears that the administration attempted to intervene in the case of Akhmadov's request for asylum. Appeal was denied, so the Boston immigration court's ruling stands. In your post you sound like the US welcomed him with open arms. That doesnt appear to be the case from the link you gave us.

AFAIK Akhmadov was welcomed by US Department of State, and got a well-paid job and accomodation from them.

Akhmadov is still welcome, and treated as an important guest and ally of the US....

Look here: Russian Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, and Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Alexy II view as inappropriate the statement by the US Stgate Department on continuation of meetings with Chechen separatists.

If you believe that courts make such decisions regardless to political requests - you are very naive

Can you imagine Russia giving political asylum to Usama Bin Laden, because Russian court doesn't have an "evidence" of his terrorist activities?...

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by anonymous
what are the similarities? and by their own admission the leadership of communist vietnam didnt invade cambodia "to stop the killing".

Well there ain't oil in Cambodia, they didn't plunder it, they invaded, sorted out the Khmer Rouge, and pulled out

On the point of killing teachers/educated people, my point is the communists did not target "educated" people, they targeted non-communists. IE, if you're a non-communist treacher you're in for a rough ride, but a pro-communist teacher is fine. Whereas Pol Pot didn't care what you were pro/anti, if you were educated, you died.

As for people falling out of helicopters, theres plenty of admissions of it and other brutalities, the South Vietnamese Army was notorious for it. Documented? Hell if you were the US Army would you document it?

[anonymous]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Well there ain't oil in Cambodia, they didn't plunder it, they invaded, sorted out the Khmer Rouge, and pulled out

On the point of killing teachers/educated people, my point is the communists did not target "educated" people, they targeted non-communists. IE, if you're a non-communist treacher you're in for a rough ride, but a pro-communist teacher is fine. Whereas Pol Pot didn't care what you were pro/anti, if you were educated, you died.

As for people falling out of helicopters, theres plenty of admissions of it and other brutalities, the South Vietnamese Army was notorious for it. Documented? Hell if you were the US Army would you document it?

youre totally wrong about communist vietnam and cambodia. at height of killings in cambodia communist vietnam was trying to normalize relations with cambodia. by the time they attacked cambodia most of the killing had already been done. by communist vietnams own admissions they settled 400,000-600,000 vietnamese commies into cambodia between 1979 and 1984. in 1989 there were still 80,000 communist vietnamese troops in cambodia thats a decade after they attacked. thats not "sorting out the khmer rouge and pulling out" to me. they tried to occupy the country. even after last troops pulled out international observers claim that over 200,000 commie vietnamese were trained soldiers that had been relocated to cambodia as "settlers". commie vietnamese didnt go into cambodia to stop killing by pol pot who buy the way had many advisors raised and trained by commie vietnamese. there was long standing hostility between north vietnam and cambodia. back to mid fifties when cambodia govt support partition of vietnam into north and south. there were guerilla incidents between cambodia and communist vietnamese well before killing fields ever existed. cambodia asked to get slapped by provoking communist vietnam theyre no angles. but you strike me as communist vietnamese apologist. or someone who doesnt have an accurate understanding of what happened. as for the helicopter stories maybe you should do a little research. as far as the us goes i say its a myth. you tell me why it isnt. i could go into military reasons why it wouldnt happen from an individual standpoint if youre interested in hearing.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Thrawn
It wasn't about bad intel, it was about overstating the intel.

CIA etc: Iraq probably has WMD.

Bush Adminstration:  Iraq has WMD.

See the difference?

 Pure Speculation on your part.

If Bush was overstating it then so was Clinton and a TON of others before bush even took office.

You really need to see the proof again?

Nice rhetoric but no substance