Lesson 1: How to get a tracking shot solution

[Duckwing6]

Hyas

Since a while i'm trying to fly the D Hog over the C because one of the instructors tolde me it's so more manly to do so  

Anyways i'm having a real hard time to set up for a tracking shot.
Please post below YOUR tricks on:

HOW TO COUNTER THE DREADED SPLIT-S

and just for completness:

HOW TO PERFORM THE SPLIT-S WITHOUT GETTING SHOT -> Because that happens to me all time.

Thanks

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Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger
Flight Officer "E" Flight
Skeleton Crew

[This message has been edited by Duckwing6 (edited 03-20-2000).]

[Rocket]

Duck,
  Still working on my counter for the split S, usually I extend and repeat watching my alt soI don't get dragged low.  Alot of times I try to read it ahead of time and catch a few in the middle of it when they think they are safe  
  When you do your split S I have found a couple of things key(I use it all the time with success), Make sure you never split straight, always go to an oblique and change your angle with each one. Predictability gets you killed easily.  I usually try to gauge the overtake speed and start my break at about 1.0-800.  I will get pinged sometimes but have dragged several planes down for the low and slow kill   If the con goes up or extends out then I will look for a way to the nearest set of friendlies.

S!
Rocket

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[This message has been edited by Rocket (edited 03-20-2000).]

[Vermillion]

I feel your pain oh Brother of the Weakened .50's  

There is one solution to the dreaded split S evasive, but you must be very careful because it burns more E and leaves you at an inferior position.

On the bounce instead of coming in from the typical high 6 position, drop lower than the con (but keep the E up) into his blindspot, and attack from there.

The way to do this is to dive down like normal, but instead of planning you lowest point of the dive as the attack,  get to his level or below him at about 3k and then attack up.

This way he can't see you very well and use your icon to easily time the evasive, plus he will have to do a rudder kick (making him slower) to get you back into sight.

Just be very careful when using this, its much easier to get killed than the standard bounce.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"

[Dingy]

First lemme state that "I am a professional....do not try this at home."  

Normally, if the bogie I am tracking goes for a split-S, I will pull up in a high yoyo and watch him out the back.  I reverse, drop down on him and await his next move.  Typically, the bandit uses the same split-S until which they are on the deck and out of altitude to do another.

Few nites ago, I figured, what the hey....I will follow that bogie down in his split-S.  So, the second time the bandit tried to split S, I had already chopped throttle, I was skidding hard trying to bleed off my excess E and I didnt split S until I had reached the point where the bandit began his split S (I used lag pursuit).  Lo and behold, the bandit didnt figure I would follow his split S and was a nice big fat target on my reverse.

Problems with this approach? Lots.  To follow a split-S, you cannot have much more E than the bogie since after the split-S, you run a VERY great risk of overshooting.  Second, anytime, I have to bleed E to follow a shot, Im setting myself up as an easy shot for any other bogies who enter the fray.

In summary, I say, dont try to follow the split_S....just use it to set up your next shot and conserve E...unless yer a gambler like me!  

-Ding

[mx22]

I'll say if bogey Spit-S's on you, simply extend and try your attack again. Alternatively, go up vertically, then wingover and drop on him from above. Of course, the latter is only possible when you know there is noone higher then you are - I had lots of kills of people who were simply hanging in the air with no speed while perfoming wingovers.

Now how to make a perfect evasive Split-S. Lemme say right away, if you careful enough, there is no need for Split-S. What I would usually do is perform a diving spiral - I would keep bogey in either my top forward left view or top forward right view and keep the plane under the path of bogey. If I see them following me, I just tighten the turn, dive more and use some rudder to spoil any snapshot opportunity. Of course, as with the Spilt-S, you gotta work on timing - you start too early and bogey can predict where you would be, start too late and you are dead. Also, as soon as bogey overshoots, start climbing as fast as you can. Keep your speed no less then 200 though (I fly SpitIX, other planes will have different speed minimum). When you see bogey reverse and press the attack, level off to gain some speed and repeat.

Please note, the above is for situations where bogey attacks from high 12 or so. If attacked from hi 6, just try keeping bogey in your top back right or back left views.

Hope this helps,

mx22

[funked]

If you have already made a couple of passes at the rear of a lower con, you can pick up the timing on when he will break.  

If you get the timing right you can bluff another diving guns pass.  Right before you think he will break, zoom up a little to get some vertical separation then roll inverted and follow his split-s.  Because you separated vertically from him, you can use a wider turn radius and pull less G-s.  Also by climbing a little first you have slowed the plane down for the initial part of your turn.

You're using net lag here, because on his FE he sees you coming down and breaks low.  He doesn't see you go up until he's already committed to the break.  If he's blacking out he won't see you coming down again at all.

It's a little bit of a gamble because if you miss you are likely to overshoot vertically, i.e. end up at a lower altitude than him while you are pulling out of the maneuver.  But I find it works great on guys that are really predictable.

It also works against a flat or oblique break turn.  You move away from the expected break direction to gain separation then move back in the break direction for the shot.

[funked]

Oh yeah, If you zoom every time the target does a split-s, some guys will fake a split-s then pull back up hoping to shoot you while zooming.

If you see this coming you can rope them sometimes, let them get just close enough that they think they can hit you, then reverse and splat them while they are stalling out.

Even more fun (but a gamble) is to chop the throttle and skid to slow down.  A lot of these guys are so predictable that they will break down, then break up without even looking.  Meanwhile you have continued in a straight line, and slowed down enough that you won't overshoot MUAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Of course you are Co-E now so you better shoot well.  

[humble]

One other thing you can try is a hard vertical move right on the break, actually a climbing lead turn, since the bogie was ahead of you at start, if he does split-s you'll pick him up in your views as you pull up and thru. Ideally you'll be floating just over stall speed inverted about 3000 over him as he goes under. Of course you look pretty dumb if he doesnt split-s but you also get some nice shots of guys zooming up off the reverse. As long as you top out high enough to avoid the prop hangers your safe and still hold all the cards for round 2....just dont try it with other cons around.

[gospel]

That is a good point, Funked  .

One trick the dreaded =jagr= from warbirds taught me is to fake the split S.  You only need to roll inverted and pull until you are below the con's field of view.  If he does not roll inverted, chances are he thinks you are going to split S and proceeds to extend and climb.  you then have a chance to roll upright and go for a snap shot as the con is extending away.

I was taught to use the split S as a last resort as it is a manuever that bleeds e and altitude.  Somtimes a well timed break turn is as effective as a split S and saves some of your E and altitude. If the con follows your turn, he will bleed more e than you.  This manuever will help to get the E difference more in your favor, unlike the split S which keeps the E advantage in the attacking con's favor.

[Duckwing6]

Humble: i'm not sure if i understood you correctly ..

You attack from a bogies 6 to high 6 and you pull up befre he starts the split-S ?
Could you please clarify

[humble]

OK...your in your hawg of death zooming in on a Nicki at 420 or so closing pretty quick...you pass 2.5..you know he has to do something..you ease of the gas a bit..2.0 nada (sleeping, AFK???) ok your 1.5 it's now or never..he can go up,down,left,right(basically) or die.

Up he's dead most of time if he goes up. Left or right is a hi yoyo counter anyway and split-s is probably most common..so..when he breaks anyway but up go into a climbing turn in same direction he breaks immediately.

1) he split-s's .. your converting E to alt turning tighter and top out literally over and ahead of him..unless he caught the move he's looking for you where? Up and rearup views. you may drop on him totally unseen.

2) he break turns, you had E already by converting with a climbing lead turn your conserving most of your E. He's probably caught you (visually) but he's expended a lot of E he can:
a) break back to original course, you split-s back down to him with a gain in relative E
b) pull up into you, a spiral climb will rope him easy
c) fly under you, you dance on his head
d) roll under to original heading as soon as he see's you break, you either catch him and split-s with no real change in relative E/position or lose him and start over.

The key is in reacting early and anticipating his move.

[This message has been edited by humble (edited 03-21-2000).]

[Duckwing6]

ahhh now i understand hat you mean humble .. TY !

All good posts up there !! Thanks Folks!

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Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger
Flight Officer "E" Flight
Skeleton Crew

[Dinger]

 

Even more fun (but a gamble) is to chop the throttle and skid to slow down. A lot of these guys are so predictable that they will break down, then break up without even looking. Meanwhile you have continued in a straight line, and slowed down enough that you won't overshoot MUAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Ouch.  I've eaten this a couple times.
Actually, in faking the split-ess, I've found that if the pilot zooms, he usually gets pretty good vert. separation before crossing to your high 12.  The shot you want comes when he follows you down.  If he's a total dweeb, he'll try to follow the first move down, gaining even more speed on you.  When you roll over and pull up, he's going too fast to follow the move, and often he'll just burn E like mad trying to pull the shot.  If you've got a fast-accelerating machine, he'll appear in your sights, pulling up at about 200 yards. muahaha.
Of course, if you get the guy who zooms a couple times and sees the move, he's liable to do what Funked there described and whack your sorry butt.
I guess it's like baseball.  If your cannon-hawg throws 100 mph fastballs, finesse  counts for something, but in something a little more elegant, you gotta change things up and move 'em around or they'll be sitting on that outside slider.

[funked]

Humble we are talking about the same thing.    

Dinger you are absolutely correct about the baseball analogy.  However you have to be careful not to get too fancy.  Never throw a .200 hitter a change-up.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 03-22-2000).]

[Lephturn]

Hehehe DuckWing.    Here's a hearty grunt and salute to another brave Hog D pilot!

Lots of good stuff above, but I'll throw my .02 Canadian Pesos into it.  

Tracking shots... yes you need them to do well in the .50 cal birds.  Basically this takes patience in a BnZ bird like the F4U.  You can E fight if you start with a significant energy advantage, but you must be very careful versus the good climbing/accelerating planes we see in AH.  A good pilot who know's you are there can deny a tracking shot until you work him to the deck, and that is a very dangerous place to be in a Hog.  The main thing is to never try to follow his low move, normally a Split-S.  If you try to follow.. you will lose.  You can try to time it by making your pass slightly below him and taking the snap-shot as he pulls through your sights, but a good pilot can time this so it is very difficult to nail him.  Normally it is safer to just go verticle when he evades and set up for the next run.

So countering the Split-S is primarily knowing when NOT to go for a shot.  If you press a bad shot too long, either you will over-shoot below the bogey and give up your advantage (run away!) or you will try to go up too late and the bogey will see you and follow you up for a shot.  The better the pilot your fighting seems to be, the more cautious you need to be.  Don't go for the low percentage deflection shots, wait for him to screw up.  Every time you make a pass and don't kill him, you burn some of your E advantage, and the Hog can't get it back.  Remember that versus a good N1K, Spit, or 109 pilot you will get maximum 2 maybe 3 passes before your E advantage is gone and you must run.  If you don't, they follow you up the next pass and you are dogmeat.

Now, using the Split-S to your advantage:  In the Hog especially you must stay fast!  Don't be afraid to use gentle dives to get your speed up, it makes it that much harder for the attacker.  If you are not over 200 Mph, you can't move fast enough to live... and 200 is even a bit slow.  I find about 270 to be the best speed to do a break of any kind in the Hog.  Anything around say 240-300 is perfect.  

Don't go directly vertical when you break into the Split-S, always throw some oblique angle in there.  Don't be predictable unless you want to be.    If you are very good at this you can sometimes be predictable on purpose and try to sucker a wiley attacker into following you so you can get a shot.  It's very dangerous to do that... but if you are in a Hog and it's a well-flown P51 attacking you (you can't run) then you might as well go for it.  

The biggest issue with evading with a Split-S is timing.  Timing is everything!    If you pull it too soon he'll just watch and set-up to nail you at the end.  If you break too late he pegs you as you are inverted but before you get moving downward enough to be hard to hit.  The hard part is you have to judge closure rate to know when to hit your break.  The faster he is closing, the earlier you need to hit your move.  If he's really wailing in on you, hit it around D800-D1.1.. this should be very high closure, similar to a HO situation.  The slower he is closing, the later you will need to wait to time it right, but D600-D500 is the absolute latest... and your likely to bit it if he's that close before you get started.  If the closure rate is that slow he will be able to follow your move, so get ready to run!  Remember, a Split-S only works if he is faster, so if he is not much faster you would only Split-S to suck him into a dive if he's flying a 109 or something that locks up in a dive.  Even then... you'll want to hit the Split-S well outside of guns range or he'll tag you.

As always... judging E states and timing are the critical factors.  Just remember, if he is much faster than you it is a timing issue... and earlier is better than later.    Wait too late and you are a big fat target, but too early and he still has to burn some E to get down to you, so error on the early side when learning.  If he is not much faster than you then a Split-S may not be your best move.

As a D Hog pilot, a competitive plane co-E or slightly higher means it's time to bug out.  I'll do the 500 MPH escape dive before he gets anywhere near guns range (if I'm concerned about staying alive).  I'll use the Split-S when a much-higher bogey is working the BnZ on me.  If it's a plane I can out-dive and I have the altitude... that first Split-S will turn into ye 'olde 500 MPH daisy-clipper escape. <G>  I need to use the word "should" here more.  In the arena I tend to keep trying to "turn the tables" and end up dying a bunch, but that's the fun part for me.    The above is good advice IMHO, and I'd do a lot better if I followed it more of the time myself.  

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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
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[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 03-26-2000).]