Author Topic: No (more) guns please - we're British  (Read 6483 times)

Offline lazs2

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No (more) guns please - we're British
« Reply #285 on: October 24, 2004, 11:05:12 AM »
and...  Just out of curiosity spook... What is it do you think it is that qualifies you to be armed and law abiding citizens to not be?

seems to me that over here at least.... you would be one of the last people I would want to see be armed.... what with your low regard for your fellow man and all...

Maybe if you allowed everone who wanted a gun to have one your homicide rate would drop down to our levels...

I mean.... have you ever seen anyone murdered?  imagine all the murders your backward policy is causing... and the medical and monetary grief your misguided policies of gun bans are causing... have you no pity on these poor victims of your arrogance?

do it for the children.... arm you countrymen now and bring your homicide rate down to U.S. levels

lazs

Offline beet1e

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No (more) guns please - we're British
« Reply #286 on: October 24, 2004, 11:24:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Beet.... so as long as a stupid, pointless law doesn't affect you personally, you have no problem with it, right?

Jeez, there's an attitude we've seen before. Martin Niemöller springs to mind.
There are lots of stupid, pointless laws. One more doesn't make any difference, even though I wouldn't take you for the kind of guy who frequented head shops before your country banned them in 1981.

10000/68 - nothing more to be said.

-quod erat demonstrandum, mi old china.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #287 on: October 24, 2004, 11:26:38 AM »
It's like beach erosion, Beet. Eventually it'll be your house that is underwater. Niemöller.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #288 on: October 24, 2004, 11:30:05 AM »
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Originally posted by Toad
It's like beach erosion, Beet. Eventually it'll be your house that is underwater. Niemöller.
Hardly. I'm well inland, some 60 miles from the nearest coast. I think my house might see me out. :D

I've heard that Niagra falls will cease to exist in its current form because of erosion,  however...

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #289 on: October 24, 2004, 11:34:19 AM »
I think beet just admitted that banning firearms is about as dumb and wrongheaded as banning headshops.    I would agree.

more than half the burglaries in england committed while the house is occupied... enough said.

lazs

Offline Toad

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« Reply #290 on: October 24, 2004, 11:34:34 AM »
Let's see... weren't you the guy bemoaning the smoking ban in restaurants? Was that you?

What cha gonna do when they come for you? The cigarette ban/confiscaton can't be that far away. Especially considering the cost of health care.

Don't worry, nanny will get round to you eventually.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #291 on: October 24, 2004, 11:44:27 AM »
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Originally posted by Toad
Let's see... weren't you the guy bemoaning the smoking ban in restaurants? Was that you?
No, it wasn't me. I don't smoke - bring it on.:aok

10000/68 QED

Offline Toad

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« Reply #292 on: October 24, 2004, 11:54:51 AM »
Ah, alcohol then. The data is more than clear; alcohol is a great social ill, costing huge amounts to treat not to mention corollary losses.

Nanny will take away your wine and liquor...for your own good, of course.

And those auto-deaths... you do realize they cost society millions, don't you? And you know riding a bicycle is so much more healthy and "green". Not to worry, son... nanny is here to save you.


Niemöller.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Widewing

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No (more) guns please - we're British
« Reply #293 on: October 24, 2004, 12:01:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
It made bugger all difference to me personally.


Isn't this always the case when freedoms are taken away, even rarely used freedoms. Since the change in the law doesn't effect the majority of people, they simply don't care. Moreover, they don't care that a small minority have lost something they valued.

That's why incrementalism is so insidious. It exploits the people's unwillingness to defend the rights and freedoms of small groups. Take away rights and freedoms in tiny increments and the masses won't notice or care. Gun ownership in Britain has never been widespread. Yet, there were gunowners who lost some personal freedom. However, because they were uneffected, the masses (Beet1e being one of them) couldn't care less.

Ben Franklin spoke well when he said, "Anyone who would trade a little of their freedom for a little security; deserves neither" (paraphrased).

A lazy democracy is the worst kind. During the two years I lived in Europe, I never saw anything that remotely approached the level of political activism that exists in the USA among the general population. Many Europeans see the political hullabalu in America as uncivilized mayhem. However, we like it that way. We thrive on the mayhem. Probably because we have a far more chaotic society and by nature and breeding, are a rebellious people.

After the end of WWII, German generals were interviewed to determine their opinion of the American soldiers they fought against. This was instituted to determine if changes in training and command structure were needed. When asked why he thought the American army was so adaptable to changing battlefield circumstances, German Field Marshal Kesselring replied: "The reason the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis." Naturally, the American Army is nothing more than a reflection of the American people.

In the 1970s a Soviet officer made the following notation in his personal journal: "One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine."

Amen Comrade.....

We shall see what the future holds, but as it appears now, Britain has gained no increased security via their gun ban. But they have surrendered a bit of their freedom.

Despite his obvious derangement in his later years, as a young man Mao Tse Dung wrote: "All political power comes from the muzzle of a gun." He was right.

Can any European grasp what would happen if a US President issued an Executive Order to confiscate all privately owned firearms? Do they understand that his nation fought a civil war over issues less volatile than this? That is why incrementalism is the preferred method, because the left recognizes that any overt gun-grab attempt would be met with unimaginable violence that the government might not survive. If I were still in the military and was ordered to collect personal firearms, I would refuse. Under the UCMJ, I can refuse any illegal order. Moreover, I have taken an oath to defend the Constitution against ALL enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC. That oath did not expire when I received my honorable discharge. The left understands that most police departments would refuse to enforce any such order. They also know that the military (rank and file) would resist as well.

We are a nation of sharp contrasts. We are a difficult people to understand. We are often self-righteous. We are impatient with dawdlers. We have zero tolerance for foreign interference in our domestic affairs. We are often ill-mannered and prone to being hotheaded. I believe that most Americans recognize these things. But we also have a low tolerance for being looked down upon by many younger Europeans who seem to  forget that their current freedom was founded upon the power, treasure and blood of the unsophisticated Americans who never asked for anything in return but respect. During my most recent visit to Europe, I was shocked at how the current generation, who never watched the Nazis march thru their cities, who never fought for their national existance, how they displayed virtually no respect for the sacrifices made by their grandfathers and those of America and Britain in bringing freedom to their lands. It was stunning to listen to their idiotic and distorted view of history (you will find that Hitler is viewed by a growing number of students as being a misguided genius and that anti-semitism is florishing in universities). I think Europe needs to spend more time looking at itself rather than at America.

Yes, we certainly have our faults. However, we haven't forgotten how we got to where we are. American's clearly have a better understanding of the price of freedom and no small amount of us believe that the right to keep and bear arms is an integral part of our Constitution and would resist the loss of that freedom as violently as we would the loss of free speech.

*Nemo me impune lacesset......

I always thought the country should have adopted the Gadsden flag of the revolution. It was a gem..



My regards,

Widewing



*Translates to: No one will provoke me with impunity.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 12:06:41 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #294 on: October 24, 2004, 12:01:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Ah, alcohol then. The data is more than clear; alcohol is a great social ill, costing huge amounts to treat not to mention corollary losses.

Nanny will take away your wine and liquor...for your own good, of course.
Feel free to make it up as you go along! :D

No, wine is good for you. In fact they even serve red wine to heart patients at Addenbrooke's hospital near Cambridge. Two glasses a day has been shown to have a positive effect with regard to keeping blood vessels healthy.

They will never take away our liquor. They can't afford to. It raises too much in tax revenues for them to do that. Try again, Mr. Toad. :aok

10000/68

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #295 on: October 24, 2004, 12:13:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing

(Image removed from quote.)


Nice flag - red cross on white background. Cool. :cool:

Interesting thread, but way off topic. The thread was about the gun situation in Britain. Indeed, the original post made no mention of America.

You say that there would be an almighty struggle if your peeps had their guns taken away. Here, we couldn't give a ph*k. In fact, tens of thousands of guns and hundreds of thousands of ammunition have been handed in voluntarily - in two amnesties in recent years.

Whereabouts in Europe did you live, WW?

Quote
That oath did not expire when I received my honorable discharge.
ewwww.... sounds like an abscess. :(
« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 12:17:48 PM by beet1e »

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #296 on: October 24, 2004, 12:26:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e


Whereabouts in Europe did you live, WW?


Northeastern Italy. Pordenone, near Aviano.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Jackal1

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No (more) guns please - we're British
« Reply #297 on: October 25, 2004, 04:57:08 AM »
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Originally posted by beet1e
In order to arm millions of law abiding CC holders, it follows that you are going to need huge chains of retail outlets selling guns, or mail order companies - whatever. Your big mistake was to think that only the law abiding would have guns. In creating thousands of outlets where guns can be purchased or otherwise procured, you created the biggest society of armed criminals on the planet.


 Hogwash. What you have done is furnished the citizen an opportunity by which to defend themslves and their property from the criminals.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #298 on: October 25, 2004, 05:04:22 AM »
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Originally posted by beet1e
Hiya Jackal!  Seems funny to be arguing with you, as you are one of my BBS pizza map allies!

Hmmm.... you start by saying  and about 5 lines later you said  So which is it?

.



 


 LOL Which is what?  You have shown both.
  I`m not arguing with ya Beet, just pointing you towards the light so you an see a little clearer. :D
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline beet1e

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« Reply #299 on: October 25, 2004, 05:05:45 AM »
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Hogwash. What you have done is furnished the citizen an opportunity by which to defend themslves and their property from the criminals.
Bollocks. It's only because the criminals are armed that you even need to consider arming yourselves. Nowhere else in the civilised world is this necessary.