P-38 Lightning : Advice & Tips

[humble]

I'm waiting, as currently modeled the 38 is at a serious disadvantage in any 1 on 1 engagement with a co-alt bogie...literally any plane in current set (IMO). Obviously at some point pilot ability may overcome the plane's weakness, but within reason if you meet anything co-alt in the MA in a 38 you have problems.

just my 2 cents

[Vermillion]

The P-38 at a disadvantage against any plane co-alt?

I know its not the uber bird it was when it lacked any drag (rightly so), but I wouldn't say that at all.

In fact, against the Pony, the Hog, a late 109 or the 190, the 38 should win easily, unless they choose to run. It will outturn any of those planes, and go into the vertical much easier. Its only disadvantage is its large size against the snap shot of the -1c.

No, it won't turnfight a Spitfire, a C.205, or a N1K2, but then again it shouldn't.

The P-38 has always been a middle of the road aircraft in performance, that doesnt' excell in any one category, but is good in all. It just means you fight different planes in different ways.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Citabria]

38 should turn with a spitfire or 109g6 or n1k2 easy in my opinion.  

[Vermillion]

Why is that Citabria? Honest question.

I know the P-38 had a reputation for being a good turning aircraft, but that was in comparison to other American Aircraft.

Your comparing relatively small agile aircraft, versus what is a huge heavy behemoth.

Nothing in the numbers I have ever seen would indicate to me that the P-38 should be turning with Spitfires.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Wraith]

Heck no, the 38 can't turn with a mono-engined plane at med-high speeds, but at low speeds it turned REAL well (pre-stall of course).

The ONLY thing that really screw up the 38 now is underpowered engines... I say make em 1/3rd or even 1/6th! more powerful.

I'd like to know the Horsepower rating/per engine that HT is using on the 38, it seems to me, IMHO, that it's runing on MULE power now  

Check this out:

improved P-38; self-sealing fuel tanks
improved P-38D; 20mm cannon
improved P-38E; V-1710-49 & 53
improved P-38F; V-1710-51 & 55
improved P-38G; V-1710-89 & 91
improved P-38H
P-38G 42-13558 w/ V-1710-75 & 77
improved P-38J; V-1710-111 & 113
Vultee-built P-38Ls
P-38L mod. as night fighter  

SPECIFICATIONS (P-38L)
Span: 52 ft.
Length: 37 ft. 10 in.
Height: 12 ft. 10 in.
Weight: 17,500 lbs. loaded
Armament: Four .50-cal. machine guns and one 20mm cannon
Engines: Two Allison V-1710s of 1,475 hp. ea.
Cost: $115,000
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 414 mph
Cruising speed: 275 mph
Range: 1,100 miles
Service Ceiling: 40,000 ft. <--------WHOOHOO

HT: If you're reading this, check out this WONDERFUL page that has ALL American WW2 fighters:  http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/pursuit.htm

[Citabria]

my bad, thats the p38J that should do what I mentioned above  

[Vermillion]

Citabria, the P-38J from block number -25 and later,  were almost identical to the P-38L. Performance should be very similar.

I looked at Pyro's published data in the help section. It matches identically to the data in the P-38 pilots manual, and to the data from "America's Hundred Thousand"(Best reference book on American Fighters ever written).

Wraith, one way I can think to test and see if the engines are underpowered is to do a climb rate test, since power to weight ratio is critical to climbrate. Load it with 100% fuel, no droptanks or external ordinance. Take off, and set autoclimb, and then record climbrate every 2,000ft. If it matches Pyro's #'s the horsepower is corret.

To me, the P-38 is a delight to fly, and my preferred vulch machine. In my opinon, if anything, the Aces High P-38 is too good.  It doesn't show the initial roll inertia, that every source I can find describes. Hell, the N1K2 shows more roll inertia than the P-38.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Wraith]

Will do that.

My gripe is not on the climb rate though, I find that the plane picks up speed quite slowly, even on a shallow dive. When at 2K and you do a shallow (15 to 20 degree) dive until you cut the lawn, speed doesn't go over 250 or 300. For a heavy plane with 2 engines on WEP this is hard for me to grasp how this can happen. And no, my gear aint down, flaps are up and everything is centered  

[Dnil]

I like the 38, its my 2nd choice to fight, will be my first when flaps are fixed.  I turn in it, boom in it do what I want in it, no problems really.  IMHO its about equal to the spit, and is easily a match for 109s and hogs.  Just waiting for the flaps to get fixed.

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Dnil
JG-2
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer

[humble]

I've flown against the 38 in almost every plane in current set. My personal feeleing is that in a co-e/alt merge the 38 is at a disadvantage. The two best match ups for it are the Hog (1c) and the 190. Those two planes will have to utilize there roll rate and better rudder response (the 190 especially since it's slower). I've flown more than a few great 1 on 1's vs jinx in the TA in a 205 vs a 1d..he constantly amazes me with his ability to fight that thing against a decidedly superior T&B aircraft (IMO). Based on the closeness of the 205 vs F4U-1d match up I dont think a 38 can mix it up with a well flown 1d in any thing other than a B&Z mode.

I don't believe that a 38 has a prayer 1 on 1 against a decent pony driver co-alt, or against a 109 G10 under any circumstances but a pure B&Z.

Now pilot skill will enter the equation. I'm certain that there are more than a few folks here who can simply outfly me...and many others in anything...But, if I'm in a 1 on 1 duel and i could force plane choice on opponent I'd put him in a 38 and fly anything else and think Im getting an edge.

I don't think the 38 flies nearly as well in the vertical as the pony does...again this is just my opinion and is based on my current skill set. I'm always open to learning and would love to find someone who can coax more out of the twin eggbeater than I can..since it's my 1st choice in the MA I'm looking to improve. Now, with E I think it's deadly against all comers.

[Ghosth]

First, a disclaimer, some of the following experience may not relate directly to Aces High as it was learned in a different sim with Different modeling.


HOWEVER, from everything that I have read on the subject, and from seeing them fly once in real life (and yes that pilot put it through ti's paces REAL nicely)

And from 4 years experience in Brand W.

There are 2 planes I truly fear when I'm flying my fav zeke. One is the 190, (hate em, nuff said). The other is the p38. They are not just faster, dive faster, climb faster, they have with the use of combat flaps 1 (one) near instantanous turn in them.

I mean for one time around the circle the p38 will hang with the best turning plane in WWII! Don't believe me? Try going up against the likes of =worr= sometime in a zeke.

Now, what should the p38 do in AH?
It should EASILY turn with the p38 ONCE! Given near equal E & alt. It should give the N1K2-j FITS! (Although you have to watch for the snap shot)

Fix the flaps, and we'll see what we have.

Disclaimer, all the above is strickly personal experience and may have no verifiable justification in fact.
In other words, My opinion, for what it's worth.

Ghosth

[Wraith]

Aye, I am aware of the non-existent turn rate of the 38, hopefully the flaps or whatever they put on the next version will fix that, but that is a known thing.

I really hate to b*tch about this over and over, but am I the only one that seems to notice a slowness in the 38? Its not slow as in it wont go over 300, gods no! The thing is FAST!. But the rate at which it picks up the speed (aceleration) is very poor! I can be on a level flight with WEP on and it takes ages for it to get above 250.. after 250 it goes to hyperspace   .

Jus' curious to know if anyone else notices this, IMHO, its what kills the 38..it can't regain one drop of E on level flight. Threats, donations, I-pity-you-dweeb notes welcome  

[Vermillion]

LOL!!! Wraith if you think the 38 accelerates slow, fly a few sorties in the F4U, then come back and tell us what you think  

Ghost, I agree with you that the 38 will turn great for a single turn, after that its gonna be in trouble against the likes of Spitfire, early 109's, and the N1K2. And you wanna guess how many people are being disciplined and only turning a single time?  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Citabria]

some fuel to the fire:

the real p38L had a mil power rpm setting of 3000rpm's

the AH p38L will only go to 2700rpm's

the question is...
Is the gauge wrong?
Or is the Lightning underpowered?

"The two Allison V-1710F-30 V-12s had a 5.5 in. bore and 6.0 in stroke, providing a compression ratio of 6.5. These drove Curtiss Electric constant speed props via a 2:1 reduction gear, delivering 1,475 HP military and takeoff ratings at 3,000 RPM, or 1,612 HP maximum rating at 3,000 RPM and 60 in. of manifold pressure. Some later engines are described as delivering up to 1,725 HP WEP rating. The engines required 100 octane or higher rated fuel, and had 13 USG oil capacity. The oil was cooled in two outboard chin core radiators, vented via automatically controlled flaps on either side of the nacelle. Fuel consumption was 0.65 lb/HP./hr at 1,100 HP normal rating, at 2,600 RPM."

The B-33 turbochargers drew air from outboard scoops on the booms, feeding central chin core intercoolers with automatic temperature control, which in turn fed the carbs. The B-33 was redlined at 26,400 RPM and exhausted upward, ejector hoods were not used due the device's intolerance of any significant backpressure.

"Every one of these problems was solved with the introduction of the P-38L."

"Let me repeat this again and again. It can never be emphasized too strongly. It makes up the Gospel Word. The P-38L. Now there was the airplane."

"Nothing, to these pilots, after the hard winter of 1943-44 could be more beautiful than a P-38L outrolling and tailgating a German fighter straight down, following a spin or split-S or whatever gyration a startled, panicked and doomed German might attempt to initiate. You just couldn't get away from the P-38L. Whatever the German could do, the American in the P-38L could do better." (cited from [8] with permission from Arthur W. Heiden).
 http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/9485/

[Wraith]

 

And you wanna guess how many people are being disciplined and only turning a single time?

Yes, Im one of them.. I NEVER turn unless im being jumped.And I hate it when im at 550 after a dive in which I jump someone and the spit I just dived on does a tight, E-bleeding 180 turn and catches up with me in less than a minute because the 38 speed at level flight goes DOWN to 410 even if its on WEP after being on 550 mph...and when you stop mowing the grass to clear a small hill the speed drops to 340..never to go up again since the spit catches up.

Some things I just never understand *sigh*

Wait a minute, I just sumarized my entire P-38 life here...wow.




[This message has been edited by Wraith (edited 04-06-2000).]