Author Topic: Can you say IRONY?  (Read 1120 times)

Offline capt. apathy

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Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2004, 12:15:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Hold on there, amigo.

The 2001 Bush tax cut didn't cut a third off any rich dude's taxes. There are minimal reductions in percentage tax rates of the 2-3 higher brackets.



Further, the bracket adjustment clearly favors the lowest income taxpayers.

Before the 2001 "Bush tax cut"



2004, after the 2001 "Bush tax cut"



Now, if you want to argue that extremely rich people can afford to pay the very best tax advisor's, attorneys and investment people to decrease their tax burden, I'd agree. I'd also agree that that very, very rich have tax shelters available that are not available to lower bracket taxpayers. But you can't hang either one of those situations on Bush. It's been that way forever, under Presidents from both parties.


if ti was strictly what percentage bracket she fell into you would be absolutely correct.  

but as anyone who does their won taxes knows it's never that simple.  in an average year, if I just take standard deductions I would get about $600 back on my federal taxes, while if I take advantage of all of the deduction I am legally entitled to I get anywhere from $2,700-$3,400 back.

the Bush tax cuts were not just about changing percentage points on the tax table.

much of it was about re classifying what types or how much of what types of income is taxable.  this has a much bigger impact than just changing the percentage.

for example one of the cuts reduced the taxable amount on income from dividends on privately owned stock.

the majority of working people I know own stock through their pension plans, these aren't privately owned so no tax cut for us.

while very wealthy people who are living off inherited money (or more accurately the income that money generates) get the amount of their income drastically cut while the guy who has to sweat for his income doesn't see the cuts.

Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2004, 01:04:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Silat
Some Republicans were aghast by the low taxes paid by Teresa Heinz Kerry in 2003. But the reason she paid so little? President Bush’s controversial tax cut  :lol


I think the irony many people see is that while John Kerry laments on how the rich got a tax cut at the expense of the working class, his wife took full advantage of the law to step on those very same people he champions.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2004, 04:07:05 PM »
Just found this while surfing the Onion...

Quote
 
Kerry Vows To Raise Wife's Taxes
BOSTON—15 September 2004
Campaigning in his home state, John Kerry vowed Monday to raise taxes on his wife Teresa Heinz Kerry, whose worth is estimated to be in the range of $900 million to $3.2 billion. "My spouse has benefited long enough from tax cuts," Kerry said. "If Congress increased her taxes by 15 percent, this country would have millions of dollars to use to create new jobs and explore alternative energy sources." Kerry added that it's high time that billionaires like the one with whom he shares his life start paying their fair share.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Toad

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Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2004, 05:57:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy

much of it was about re classifying what types or how much of what types of income is taxable.  for example one of the cuts reduced the taxable amount on income from dividends on privately owned stock.

 


Source? More than this one example please. Lots and lots of Americans privately hold stock.

Further, please link any support you may have for your

"this has a much bigger impact than just changing the percentage"

statement.

How much bigger an impact? Data, please.
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Offline Mini D

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Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2004, 07:54:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
So Dejavu; What is the problems with Heinz Kerry's taxes?
Has she violated laws ?
It has nothing to do with legality.  The irony isn't about the tax bracket, it's about the willingness of someone that is advocating higher taxes for the rich seizing upon loopholes.

I'm personally not that up in arms about what people pay in taxes.  I'm a bit more concerned with what I have to pay.  If someone wants to exploit a loophole, then fine... it's just a bit odd to see some people do it that seem to profess something a bit contrary as far as beliefs go.

And apathy... the options "loophole" is not newly created... and it's not something Bush drove through.  It began to build in late 1999 when some companies began to experience stock drops that were very significant.  One person exercised Cisco options at $60 to find them worth $10 come tax time.  But you don't pay the taxes on the $10 their worth, you pay the taxes on the $60 you bought them for.  It's a very odd system to say the least.  It was long overdue.

As a matter of fact, the stock option system is going away for most companies.  Once again, this is something that began in the late 1990s and is continuing on.  It seems they created a slight imbalance on the corporate books.  They didn't have to be declared as an expense, but now they do.  That basically moves the tax burden back to the corporation... and they really hate that.

Offline Drunky

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Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2004, 08:06:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Oh... the irony of not having a clue what you're reporting on, reading or posting about.


Well hell.  Something as silly as that has never stopped me before.
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Offline Gunslinger

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Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2004, 08:47:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy
if ti was strictly what percentage bracket she fell into you would be absolutely correct.  

but as anyone who does their won taxes knows it's never that simple.  in an average year, if I just take standard deductions I would get about $600 back on my federal taxes, while if I take advantage of all of the deduction I am legally entitled to I get anywhere from $2,700-$3,400 back.

the Bush tax cuts were not just about changing percentage points on the tax table.

much of it was about re classifying what types or how much of what types of income is taxable.  this has a much bigger impact than just changing the percentage.

for example one of the cuts reduced the taxable amount on income from dividends on privately owned stock.

the majority of working people I know own stock through their pension plans, these aren't privately owned so no tax cut for us.

while very wealthy people who are living off inherited money (or more accurately the income that money generates) get the amount of their income drastically cut while the guy who has to sweat for his income doesn't see the cuts.


wow doom and gloom woa is me.  Did you forget about the increas in child tax credit?

My return nearly doubled....yet I'm considered a very POOR/low income American.  Most of those tax breaks on stocks were not intended to help out working stiffs, they were to help stimulate the sluggish economy that you guys allways seem to want to blame Bush for.

Lets not forget alot of the tax breaks that Small Business got as well.  Plenty of money there to allow expansion and purchasing of new equipment.  

In addition I am no tax/numbers genious at all but WTF does this mean?
Quote
pre tax cut she paid 18% and after Bush's cuts she payed 12%. thats a 33% reduction in total tax paid.


How does a decrease from 18-12% come out to be a 33% reduction?  You telling me that 6% decrease in taxes totaled 33% overall?

Don't get me wrong....I'm not complaining about her taxes at all.  I just don't get off on all this tax cut for the rich crap....I'm not rich and I got tax relief.  My brother isnt rich yet his business did well this year and he definatly took advantage of new deduction rules expanding his business and probably helping to employ a few other people accross the US in the process.

Offline Manedew

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Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2004, 09:03:31 PM »
What like Bush doesn't use 'loopholes'

did he use loopholes to get out of going to war?

Ironic?  Whatever ... repiblucans are grapsing at tufts off grass about to tumble over the cliff.....

and one more point

Money makes money .....  If you don't know that you'll always be poor :D
 
so tax the rich .....

Imho singles shouldn't be taxed till they make about 30,000$ a year ... households no taxed until about 50,000 ... and give em a 10,000 break for every dependant.

then just tax the richer in greater increments as thier gross wealth increases.... the 'people' already pay pleanty at tho's level .. sales tax everytime you buy someting... taxes for car's, roads etc...

tax the folks with money ...but end all taxes (includeing propety taxes) for incomeless persons over 65 :D

hey but that's me.....

Offline Gunslinger

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Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2004, 09:07:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Manedew
What like Bush doesn't use 'loopholes'

did he use loopholes to get out of going to war?

Ironic?  Whatever ... repiblucans are grapsing at tufts off grass about to tumble over the cliff.....



Funny....I really havnt heard too much outrage directly from republicans over this.

Offline TheDudeDVant

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Re: Re: Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2004, 07:45:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I think the irony many people see is that while John Kerry laments on how the rich got a tax cut at the expense of the working class, his wife took full advantage of the law to step on those very same people he champions.



Nope.. just you from my pov.. Plain silliness to think that anyone would not take advantage of the present situation.. Kinda like this from the article:

Quote
Thus, Bush’s 20-point cut in dividend tax rates is saving Lewis a ton of money—call it $19.4 million. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Lewis has given $18.9 million to anti-Bush organizations. In other words, what Bush has saved Lewis on this one transaction covers Lewis’ cost of battling Bush, with half a million bucks of walking-around money left over.

Offline Gunslinger

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Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2004, 08:11:12 AM »
Liberals:
WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

THE ECONOMY IS FAULTER


Enter Bush Tax cuts to stimulate said economy


WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

HE GAVE TAX CUTS TO THE PEOPLE THAT DO THE MAJOR INVESTING IN THE ECONOMY!!!!!!!!!

Cry me a river

Offline Martlet

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Re: Re: Re: Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2004, 08:12:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
Nope.. just you from my pov.. Plain silliness to think that anyone would not take advantage of the present situation.. Kinda like this from the article:


Plain hypocrisy to take advantage of the present situation the complain about it.

Offline TheDudeDVant

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2004, 08:21:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
Plain hypocrisy to take advantage of the present situation the complain about it.


I've not seen compliants.. I've seen things that need a fixin. 8) You'll see what you need too though..

Offline Martlet

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2004, 08:28:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
I've not seen compliants.. I've seen things that need a fixin. 8) You'll see what you need too though..


If an ATM machine is broken, do you take all the money then sue the bank for losing your savings?

Oh wait.  You're a NeoCom.  Of course you would.

You wouldn't see the hypocrisy, though.

Offline TheDudeDVant

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you say IRONY?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2004, 08:33:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
If an ATM machine is broken, do you take all the money then sue the bank for losing your savings?

Oh wait.  You're a NeoCom.  Of course you would.

You wouldn't see the hypocrisy, though.


I DO see a moron though..

Are they suppose to pay more than their tax burden? Martlet go away you dumb****..