Etiquette in Training Area?

[humble]

Skyhuntr,

I thought about that after we ran into each other in the TA tonight. You may be correct that it was SkyHigh...not certain. that was a long binge for me that day ..so I was somewhat fried by the end and may have confused "handles"...sorry for any confusion.

[humble]

Skyhuntr,

I thought about that after we ran into each other in the TA tonight. You may be correct that it was SkyHigh...not certain. that was a long binge for me that day ..so I was somewhat fried by the end and may have confused "handles"...sorry for any confusion.

[humble]

I was rereading these two threads and focused on the post mentioning blueice. I think this depicts a significant portion of the problem.
Blueice is a "newbie" with no bad intentions. He simply didn't know better and it took him time to learn proper "rules of engagement". I think we have an educational issue here. I do agree that a posting of general "rules of engagement" is in order to help with this issue.

However, one major issue remains. The true purpose of the arena. Obviously views vary and are interspersed with comments, examples and editorial's. The following is my view of the TA's "mission statement".

This is a combat flight sim, if your purpose is to simply "fly" a better choice is flight unlimited or such. What seperates AH from the "canned games" is the combination of flight model and real pilot's. Now, in the main arena most of the better sticks focus on killing...and they are very good at it. They are also very competitive and can't/won't take time to chat at the expense of their situational awareness. They also don't always offer "fair" fights...to anyone  .

So, you need a place where skills can be learned in a somewhat more "friendly" manner.
Does that mean mercy, no it means explanation and "coaching". Now as far as I'm concerned the "sterile" enviornment some would favor bears little resemblence to the "real" world of the Main Arena. What good does it do to artificially hamper the development of situational awareness, tactical flying etc so these players can go get shredded in the arena.

Now, vulching and/or repeatedly hosing some poor trainee is uncalled for and should be treated harshly. But this is a combat sim and I think that a few of us are missing that point. Additionally this is a training arena, not an arena restricted to "new members". On many occasions I'm the trainee, not the trainer...and i've racked up 3+ yr's of mediocrity in these endevours. Brook (old AW flier) said it best " I'm above the unwashed masses and below the god's ". Personally I'm tickled that the "gods" take a moment now and then to answer the inevitiable "How the hell did you do THAT?

[This message has been edited by humble (edited 04-23-2000).]

[Wyrm]

I came from another sim Fighter Ace 1.5 and 2.0..In both versions the place I learned most of my situational awareness and gunney was in the "freeforall"rooms.Something like that would be good for guy who isnt brand new but could use the quick combat to learn more rapidly on his own against unforgiving opponents...just an idea for AH

[Nash]

---edit-----

hrmph.. another thread just caught my eye. Just found this forum - but yegads - sure is heavy in here huh?  

I'll post my thoughts there - cuz it looks like my name's been brought up. <sigh> hehe

But let us not fool ourselves. These are dark and trying times gentlemen. The TA frought with peril, greed, seal clubbin' and just downright pure eeeevil. The strong prosper, the meek perish in glowing balls of engine fire.

wotevah.  

Most people get it, some don't, and some refuse to. I'll post my thoughts over there.

It's 5am and I got an appointment with bed.



[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 04-24-2000).]

[Ghosth]

Ya know nash if it's heavy in here maybe you should be asking yourself WHY?

If you'r not part of the solution, your part of the problem!


Turn killshooter back on in the TA.
Send 90% of those in the TA back to main, or H2H. Leave the TA for actual with a trainer TRAINING!

[humble]

I've spent mant hours in the TA over the last week, and NASH has been a positive presence each and every time I've been up.

Ghosth...I can't recall seeing you in the TA. Are you speaking from personal observation's at other times?

I can't comment on the training arena or procedures at WB..but I'll say this, the training setup at AW sucked. Not the trainers, they were outstanding. I hope to be 1/2 as good at teaching this stuff as seal and the others were. But in AW, you went...and sat...and waited...finally got a trainer, went up and worked...then no place to work on it afterward.

[WW]

Hmble,
I thought you where complaining before that AW sucked cause in the newbie arena you kept getting shot down? You mentioned how Vets where logging into the newbie arena there and killing newbies.

Now your saying you had no place to work on stuff?!?

I'm confused!

--Quote from other thread--
As for how I view newbie's...I've carried my cpid since I picked it after a day of being hosed in the AW "newbie" arena by all the vets who got there rocks off stalking us "deer in the headlight's" types.


[This message has been edited by WW (edited 04-24-2000).]

[bloom25]

Wow, I've been missing some hot posts!    You know, it seems to me that the solution is simple.  Just have another arena created for the sole purpose of Free For Alls.  Until we do this there will always be problems.  If you are new to this game, how can it be expected of you to know not to shoot at any thing you see in the training arena?  I've only been in the training arena once myself, and that was to help someone with the radio functions.  When I was there I didn't see any of this type of behavior going on.



------------------
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[RangerBob]

Boy is there ever a problem in the training area.

The problem is that no one really knows what the training area is for, or what is accepted in that arena.

I stayed away for quite some time thinking it was just for new pilots like the one in Airwarrior that Bobo mentioned. Then I came in one day to try some things out and noticed there was a free for all going on where you could instantly try out new maneuvers, different planes, and practice gunnery on each other. Sounds great I said and joined right it. I got some great tips from the trainers like Humble. Naturally, I avoided shooting down the newbies that were obviously be coached on how to fly with a trainer, and I didn't shoot people down taking off.

All was going great for hours until I dropped in on the 6 of an experience main arena pilot and shot him down. He went on for post after post about how I should know better than to do something like that in the training area. I tried to explain that we have been shooting each other down now for hours on end, and I was sorry for not knowing he wasn't part of the group, but he would have none of it.

The problem was that he expected to be in a leave alone new pilots type training area, and I was involved in a free for all practicing some really great moves expecting him to be there for the same reason.

The problem is that no one knows what to expect when entering this area and that leads to a lot of misunderstandings.

Something has to be done to post the accepted practice, or rules, for this training area just as one enters the arena.

Ranger Bob

[humble]

WW,

Let me clarify my experiences for you. I first found AW on AOL...i'd heard of it on genie..but with a baby and 2 girls from my wifes first marriage...the economics where prohibative. Having been an "ACE" at BoB, Chuck Yeager..et,al..I of course was gonna come in and just light em up  ....hehe...NOT

Now, AOL AW had a "newbie" arena..so I fired up me trusty pony...after all that WAS..Chucks ride. Of I went, wow, them 109's didn't do that in the "abbyville boys" (my favorite sortie back when). Hmmm neither did the 190's . I was getting waxed by Yaks, then I got waxed like 32 times by a vader..yes 32 (damm they hold ammo).

Now this doesn't include the dweebs who killed the ack and setup "vulchfests". I died well over 100 times before I even saw the rear end of an other plane.

Now, the training area was different, back then training was on Wednesday at 9:00 PM EST
Since I live in Phoenix, it was almost impossible to fit in. When I did, I waited while it all sorted out..kind of like scenerio's  ..then I got 30 min to an hour..and all in all the trainers were outstanding.

But where could you practice, not in the TA, no one was up unless it was with a trainer...so back to the arena, which was much worse than the TA here ever is.

As I stated, I applaud your efforts in the TA, but I'm viewing some of the same incidents you are and do feel your twisting them somewhat. You take a single event and blow it way out of proportion.

[weazel]

 

Turn killshooter back on in the TA.
Send 90% of those in the TA back to main, or H2H. Leave the TA for actual with a trainer TRAINING!

 I agree with Ghosth,the arena was set up for training-not seal clubbing or furballing,thats what the main is for.

[Nash]

Sayeth Ghosth:

"Ya know nash if it's heavy in here maybe you should be asking yourself WHY?

If you'r not part of the solution, your part of the problem!"

Have we met? Sure.... It's heavy in HERE. It certainly *aint* heavy in THERE... And for all your ideas on how to make the TA a better place for everyone, maybe you oughtta actually fly in there more often. It might give you a perspective, or at the very least a *basis* on which to suggest ways on how we could improve things. Y'all are kickin' up a toejam storm over what is really an outstanding part of Aces High. Why IS that?! Complain all ya want, but the more ya do, the more complete a picture I get of how much time you actually spend there.

[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 04-24-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 04-24-2000).]

[WW]

Hmble,
So if I understand you correctly, there was one training arena where peice was readily available. And another sortof FFA arena where peice was harder to come by which they called the newbie arena.

You found the newbie arena frustrating because vets would keep shooting you down and vulching you?

Now, these kinds of things don't happen anywhere near as much here as it did then in AW? When I get my wheels shot out on the runway, when someone follows me into a hanger at a remote field and kills me, when Wiz is getting shot on the runway, those are all my twisted interpretation because those things just don't happen? People being called whiners doesn't happen in there, I'm just twisting things right?

Well, ya know, I have to say your sort of right? interpretations are getting twisted. It's my interpretation of whats on the otherside of the "Traning Arena" menu option. It's an FFA, not a training arena.

If the arena is an FFA, Then nothing that's happened to me in there is subject to any ettiquette discussion. If it's not an FFA, then please educate my twisted perceptions has to how I, after only 1.5 weeks in AH can have so many names and experiences, personaly and otherwise that is subject for ettiquette discussion? I must be lieing about all these things. They never happend. Wiz who I had to spend 3 hours last night with, teach BASIC acm (how to roll, how to loop, how to turn) must be running around killing people and then whining when he get it right?

The film I have of some guy vulching Wiz on the field and Bee laughing his butt off at the whiners doesn't exist. The same film where I ask who egged the field and was told it was AirRev, that didn't happen. And when I saw AirRev doing it myself a couple days later with you in the arena, that didn't happen either.

So AH is still Beta then cause my record function is really pooched.

Each person in all of these discussions who comment on being bounced by someone while they where on the runway or on climb out, they're just imagining it.

Well, there's no debating that.

[Nash]

Yer just being dweebish WW.

You've been here one and a half weeks?! And already you've become the spokesperson for all that is just and fair and good in the TA? You're keeping a list of names? You're recording the attrocities as they happen on film? My god man! I almost spat beer on my monitor last night after I shot ya and streaming through the text buffer was "I HAVE IT ON FILM! I HAVE IT ON FILM!"

Take my advice - don't try and be some kinda etiquette cop, try and *enjoy* yerself. Don't go *seeking out* injustice. Try to learn from people, help people, and yes - KILL people as best ya can. That is, after all, what we do here.