Airbus 300 crash NY 2001 investigation findings

[Toad]

Sounds a lot like a problem in the "control laws". Basically, there's a computer program the limits the fly-by-wire inputs throughtout the flight envelope.

Airbus has had "control law" issues before (and IIRC) they always finger the pilots first, claiming the programming is flawless. So that part is no suprise.

I can tell you a story of the dark and stormy night I was F/E on a functional check flight on a 727 after phase maintenance.  This all happened so fast that it takes way longer to read it than it did to happen. It happened so fast, we were all pretty much stunned into inaction.

The Captain was an ex-Navy guy with a reputation for being a bit agressive. One of the checks was to turn off both yaw dampers, induce mild dutch roll (10-20 degree oscillation) and then turn on one yaw damper. The yaw damper should/did immediately stop the dutch roll. Repeat test for other yaw damper.

Well, F/O flew the first dutch roll (all you had to do to induce it was turn off the yaw dampers and push in some rudder and quickly release it. It would start dutch rolling with ever increasing amplitude. You just turned on the yaw damper when it was banking back an forth at about 20 degrees) and the Captain decided the F/O hadn't REALLY given it a good dutch roll.

So, the Captain does the next one. He pretty much pegs the rudder to the floor for a hearty second or so, which gets us rolling up to about 30 degrees or so and then he releases it all at once and lets the amplitude increase up to about 60-70 degrees in a heartbeat.

The cockpit is vewy, vewy, quiet. I'm hanging on to the F/O Desk, the maintenance guys are grabbing anything bolted to the floor.. and then the Captain reaches to slap on the yaw damper at about 70 degrees of bank and swinging for more. The maintenance chief yells "NO!"

WHAM!  The yaw damper rolls us out right now.

The maintenance chief then debriefs the Captain for an extremely long time and in great detail about how the vert stab is attached to the aircraft and just what sort of stresses it can and cannot take. He describes in great detail just exactly how much he figures the T-tail got twisted and how he expects to have to do a two-day inspection on the airplane now.

We actually finished the rest of the check and rtb'd safely. They did re-check the vert stab but it was apparently OK.

I was always watching pretty close and spoke up readily when I flew with that guy after that though.

[FUNKED1]

Difference is...  Boeing designed an airplane that would stay in one piece if the pilot or control system fubared.  Airbus didn't.
Boeing, going, etc.

[Toad]

Hey.. they would have had to add 150 pounds of vertical empennage support to that 375,000 takeoff weight airplane!

Think of the loss in fuel economy!!

Interesting discussion of the accident from a "pilot defense" point of view.

Here

[Chortle]

Interesting and alarming stuff. Thanks for the pilot defense link Toad - Airbus claiming that certification data is 'no longer available' is suspect.

For a layman, designing an airliner that can effectively break itself apart without 'proper' pilot training, just by using it's control surfaces sounds like they did a crappy job.

[Otto]

If a Control Member can't take the force a Pilot can apply then something needs to be done to limit that force.  I really don't want to be flying in an aircraft that self-destructs from what appear to be normal control inputs.

I wonder if anyone is still flying an Airbus with their feet on the rudders? (Bad joke...)

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Otto
If a Control Member can't take the force a Pilot can apply then something needs to be done to limit that force.  I really don't want to be flying in an aircraft that self-destructs from what appear to be normal control inputs.

what he said

if that's the best they can do, I am inclined not to rule out an onboard bomb

[Dnil]

pilots died, therefore its pilot error.

Poor guys cant defend themselves so the studmuffins pin the blame on them.

Plenty of crashes are pilot error, this isnt one of um.