Author Topic: "Out of plane" manuver  (Read 1322 times)

Offline Gunthr

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"Out of plane" manuver
« on: November 30, 2000, 09:16:00 AM »
What is an out of plane manuver?

Thanks,

Gunthr
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Ozark

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"Out of plane" manuver
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2000, 09:41:00 AM »

Offline Harppa

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"Out of plane" manuver
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2000, 09:44:00 AM »
Sounds like hitting silk to me  

Cheers
   
Harppa
III/JG5

[This message has been edited by Harppa (edited 11-30-2000).]

Offline Gunthr

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"Out of plane" manuver
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2000, 10:30:00 AM »
Ozark, I wasn't too sure about this part:

 
Quote
...with crustal velocity errors of less than 0.15 km/s, and intra-crustal boundary depth errors generally less than 2 km. These errors are approximately equal to the uncertainties commonly assigned to crustal models derived from traveltime inversion. The artifacts are also similar in magnitude to the lateral smearing...

 Do you mean like when you throw a pizza crust in the garbage, like, how fast is it going? and if you miss the gargage it won't be off more than .15km????  I knew that, already.

I'm also not too sure about this,  
Quote
...these errors are approximately equal to the uncertainties commonly assigned to crustal models derived from traveltime inversion.


Does that mean, like, you are gonna screw up about as much as the confusion you get when you fly upside down, or somthing like that???

Yeah, I think I get it now.

I think I'm gonna have to see somebody do one before I really get myself around the concept though, you know what I mean?  

And <S> Harppa for your answer, which actually makes a lot of sense. At least I can easily understand it...  

 
Gunthr
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[This message has been edited by Gunthr (edited 11-30-2000).]
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Ozark

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"Out of plane" manuver
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2000, 10:55:00 AM »
I think you got it!  

[This message has been edited by Ozark (edited 11-30-2000).]

Offline Lephturn

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"Out of plane" manuver
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2000, 11:10:00 AM »
Hehe.

Ok, now I'll give you the "real" answer.  At least the answer if you are talking about air combat.

If you draw a line from one wingtip to the other of an airplane, you will roughly get it's "plane" of movement.  If you roll your craft so that your wingline is at a different angle than the other fellow's, you can say you are "out of plane".  This is best demonstrated if your target rolls 90 degrees left and pulls.  If you only roll 45 degrees and pull, you will be 45 degrees out of plane with him.  Visualize it as if you both executed perfect 360 degree circles at this bank angle drawing a line in the sky.  The two circles represent the planes.  One circle is "flat" or horizontal, while yours would be tilted up at about 45 degrees.

You normally want to do "out of plane" maneuvers for a couple of reasons, either to avoid getting shot, or to avoid high closure or an overshoot.  When a bad guy is camped out at your six, it is easy for him to make adjustments "in plane".  That is if you are both flying along wings level, an adjustments you make up or down will be fairly easy for him to track and shoot you.  However, if you can roll and pull out of plane with him but 90 degrees or so, he has to make a much more difficult correction to track you.  In this way a plane with very fast roll can be very difficult to shoot if the pilot keeps rolling quickly out of plane with the attacker and making short hard pulls.

The second circumstance when out of plane maneuvers are normally used is when you have high closure and want to drop into lag pursuit to avoid an overshoot.  If the Spit I'm tracking makes a hard flat turn to the left, I can use an out-of-plane maneuver avoid overshooting and set myself up for a shot.  I do this by simply rolling to only about 40 degrees and pulling, thus taking me out of plane.  I'll have to roll much further an pull later on to get back down to the enemy, but you get the idea.      This effectively means I am going to have to travel a longer distance to get where he is going.  Since I have more energy, I need to do this to avoid overshooting him.  A high yoyo such as I just described is an example of an out of plane maneuver.  The most extreme example is when your target flat turns and you execute a loop.  That's as far out of plane as you can get.  

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com

"A pig is a jolly companion,
Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale,
Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you,
When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover,
You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!"
-- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"


[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 11-30-2000).]

Offline Gunthr

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"Out of plane" manuver
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2000, 11:34:00 AM »
Got it Lephturn, thanks.  

Gunthr
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Xjazz

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"Out of plane" manuver
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2000, 01:23:00 AM »
Terve! Hello!

In and out of plane manuver: http://www.combatsim.com/htm/nov98/tactic/2-5.jpg

Basic flight, BFM, ACM, wingman tactics & etc.: http://www.combatsim.com/archive/htm/htm_arc4/training.htm

Check it out!

Xjazz

PS. Harppa: Siisti kuva! :-))