Ki-84-Ia / F4u1 Comparison/Review

[Krusty]

Yeah, new patch, I'm trying out the new planes and tank. FYI: Love the T34, but takes forever to reload. Will be a big disadvantage when fighting the Pzr4.

Anyways, took a ki84 up, shot down an offline drone, augered for the hell of it, then decided to do a real test. I took 50% fuel and DTs (dropped once I was at highest alt), full ammo and took off, auto climbed. I climbed until it didn't want to climb anymore. *At best climb speed*. Note my "ceiling" is a rough estimate, and if you increase speed and/or zoom climb you can and will get higher.

I took the plane to it's "ceiling" then dove down 1k, leveled, throttled back then forward a bit, and got the IAS, TAS, boost, and altitude for the ki84 all the way down to the deck.

Then I thought.. Hrm.. this is cool and all, but how does it compare to, say, an f4u? I chose the f4u1 because it's the earliest version and the ki84 we got is an early version as well.

I will present it as :

PLANE ALTITUDE  -  PLANE 1 BOOST - IAS - TAS
PLANE ALTITUDE  -  PLANE 2 BOOST - IAS - TAS

Ki-84-Ia 50% fuel (0.001 burn rate) fuel = 94, full ammo less 5 rounds of 12.7mm (hit F instead of G on takeoff). Best climb = 163mph
F4u-1 50% fuel (0.001 burn rate) fuel = 180, full ammo. Best climb = 154mph

Ki84 ceiling (can go higher, but who wants to?) = 32,000
f4u1 ceiling (can go higher, but who wants to?) = 30,000

Ki 32,000 B=-15 (didn't record rest)
f4 32,000 (didn't want to climb that high)

Ki 31,000 B=-10 IAS=206 TAS=343
f4 31,000 (didn't want to climb that high)

Ki 30,000 B=-10 IAS=213 TAS=348
F4 30,000 B=41 IAS=233 TAS=382

Ki 29,000 B=-5 IAS=221 TAS=335
F4 29,000 B=44 IAS=243 TAS=391

Ki 28,000 B=~0 IAS=228 TAS=360
F4 28,000 B=45 IAS=250 TAS=395

Ki 27,000 B=~2 IAS=235 TAS=364
F4 27,000 B=47 IAS=254 TAS=393

Ki 26,000 B=5 IAS=242 TAS=368
F4 26,000 B=49 IAS=262 TAS=398

Ki 25,000 B=9 IAS=248 TAS=370
F4 25,000 B=51 IAS=268 TAS=401

Ki 24,000 B=12 IAS=255 TAS=375
F4 24,000 B=53 IAS=274 TAS=403

Ki 23,000 B=16 IAS=264 TAS=381
F4 23,000 B=53 IAS=277 TAS=400

Ki 22,000 B=20 IAS=268 TAS=380
F4 22,000 B=53 IAS=280 TAS=397

Ki 21,000 B=24 IAS=275 TAS=384
F4 21,000 B=53 IAS=282 TAS=393

Ki 20,000 B=24 IAS=279 TAS=382
F4 20,000 B=51.5 IAS=287 TAS=393

Ki 19,000 B=24 IAS=279 TAS=376
F4 19,000 B=54 IAS=295 TAS=398

Ki 18,000 B=24 IAS=279 TAS=369
F4 18,000 B=54 IAS=297 TAS=394

Ki 17,000 B=24 IAS=281 TAS=366
F4 17,000 B=54 IAS=300 TAS=391

Ki 16,000 B=24 IAS=282 TAS=361
F4 16,000 B=54 IAS=302 TAS=387

Ki 15,000 B=10 IAS=286 TAS=361
F4 15,000 B=54 IAS=304 TAS=384

Ki 14,000 B=13 IAS=291 TAS=361
F4 14,000 B=54 IAS=306 TAS=380

Ki 13,000 B=17 IAS=298 TAS=363
F4 13,000 B=54 IAS=308 TAS=376

Ki 12,000 B=20 IAS=304 TAS=364
F4 12,000 B=54 IAS=310 TAS=370

Ki 11,000 B=24 IAS=309 TAS=366
F4 11,000 B=54 IAS=312 TAS=366

Ki 10,000 B=24 IAS=312 TAS=362
F4 10,000 B=54 IAS=315 TAS=363

Ki 9,000 B=24 IAS=313 TAS=358
F4 9,000 B=54 IAS=317 TAS=363

Ki 8,000 B=24 IAS=314 TAS=354
F4 8,000 B=54 IAS=319 TAS=359

Ki 7,000 B=24 IAS=315 TAS=350
F4 7,000 B=54 IAS=320 TAS=352

Ki 6,000 B=24 IAS=317 TAS=346
F4 6,000 B=54 IAS=322 TAS=352

Ki 5,000 B=24 IAS=318 TAS=342
F4 5,000 B=54 IAS=327 TAS=352

Ki 4,000 B=24 IAS=319 TAS=338
F4 4,000 B=51 IAS=332 TAS=354

Ki 3,000 B=24 IAS=320 TAS=335
F4 3,000 B=52.5 IAS=338 TAS=354

Ki 2,000 B=24 IAS=322 TAS=331
F4 2,000 B=54 IAS=344 TAS=351

Ki 1,000 B=24 IAS=322 TAS=327
F4 1,000 B=55 IAS=346 TAS=348

Ki DECK B=24 IAS=323 TAS=323
F4 DECK B=54 IAS=348 TAS=348


ALL ARE SUBJECT TO +/- OF A FEW MPH!!

So it seems it's a decent fighter! Performs as well as a f4u1, climbs like a spit14 and turns like a spitV.

All I can say is "daaaayum!"

Has a much more progressive power arc than the f4u1, which has several power drops at certain alts (and a boost at 1k, and only 1k)

Anywhere from 4k to 11k the Ki will be more than a match for the F4U-1. Also from 19k to 22k (or thereabouts) it will give the F4u1 a run for its money.

Ki is NOT a late war uber plane. We got too many of those. Instead it is a mid-to-late-war plane that will perform better than 75% of the planes you encounter.

[F4UDOA]

Krusty,

Looks like you forgot the WEP on the F4U-1.

[Flyboy]

isnt the F4u-1a faster then the F4u-1d\c?

if so, how would the Ki84 fare against the 1d in speed?

[Krusty]

No, I did NOT use WEP in these tests. First, because it took so long to let the speed even out that I didn't want to waste my WEP on alts, say, 10 to 20k, then run out for other alts, and have to reup, etc etc

So no wep used.

Also, I started at the top and worked my way down. I tried WEP a few times here and there at 25k+ but it didn't kick in (no good at those alts) then didn't want to keep trying. I did notice it was back working in the 10-20k range, but didn't systematically note top speeds with it.

[stantond]

Having flown the F4U-1 both in AH1 and AH2 for a while, I feel compelled to comment on a couple of points.  Speed, while important, is not all there is to flying a plane.  If you don't manage your energy well in an F4U (any variant, except possibly the -4) you will not last long.  

Numbers which never appear, other than buried in climb rates are for the acceleration. Acceleration is the ‘instant energy’ restorer. The F4 family (with that -4 exception) can reach 348 ias on the deck, but they cannot reach that speed w/out wep in level flight (well, maybe but I am not that patient).  Diving is the only way to quickly accelerate.

I don't believe the same can be said for the KI84.  When combining the ability to accelerate and climb, the plane can be 'yanked and banked' with fewer consequences.  Energy can be spent and recovered at will using the throttle.  The KI84 (in Shaw's vernacular) is not doubly superior to an F4U, but neither is an LA7 until you consider acceleration.




Regards,

Malta

[Krusty]

A side note on E states

The Ki84 retains speed WELL.

And by this I mean in a shallow dive it was able to stay at +30-40mph over top speed for up to 5 minutes after leveling off with auto pilot. As long as the engine is firewalled (pushed to the stops) it keeps speed better than a p51D.

HOWEVER, it also accelerates better than an F4u-1. It slows faster than a Fw190. Just chop throttle and your speed starts dropping like a stone. It accelerates in the low to mid speeds really well, and it climbs like a spit14/109g-10, so basically if you are slow, just nose up, then make a shallow dive and you'll be top speed in no time flat. The same can't be said of the F4u-1, which felt slow and sluggish until I got up to speed after my climb out.

Make use of the 84's rate of climb. Use it before they fix it, because surely it's inaccurate.

[TequilaChaser]

did you do these on an average of 3 for each alt? or was this a one time speed trial?
once at alt, go above your test alt  dive to test alt ( open E6B ) and let plane slow to fastest speed
then drop to next alt and repeat ( all alts down to sea level )
then redo again but use wep, when Wep runs out, at that moment note the speed
then do test 3 times and take an average to be absolutely sure..........
the fuel burn multiplyer set to 0.001 is needed to be used as well
always try and test to a minimum average of 3, the more the better

this way people will not doubt your test


testing speed, turnrate, rollrate, acceleration and climbrate is very time consuming and I everyone that takes the time to do them

[Krusty]

What happened was I was diving down to an alt in a shallow dive, but waiting for the speed to slow down was taking forever (the ki retains speed well), so with E6B open I chopped throttel back, let the speed drop, then throttled up. I kept chopping the throttle until when I pushed it forward again the speed increased (meaning I had dropped below the top speed for that alt) then I let it settle until it stopped on its own. I recorded the number, then dove down 1,000 feet, and chopped throttle until it was around the previous altitude's speed, and played with the throttle until I was certain that I had its top speed. Then repeated.



As you can guess it took a long time, but because it took a long time (because I let it sit for minutes on end to stabilize its speed) I am fairly certain of the speeds recorded.


Like I said, if you take into consideration a +/- of a few MPH it's a good comparison. It's not absolute data, but it's good data.

[TequilaChaser]

rgr Krusty,
I am not doubting your test, and I know first hand it is very time consuming, most of the people that do do these test will do them on an average.

you could just do the test 2 times, if you note one of the speeds is/seems  to have a marginal difference then at that alt/speed do a retest to see if  it evens out.......

if the 2 speeds are identical or with in 1 mph  then that is probably spot on.......no need for a 3rd test, but a 3rd test is helpful when doing an average of 3

going strictly by 1 test and recording the first speed you get, could lead to a dispute.....what I am offering is a way to not have anything disputed....

again appreciate the time you took to offer these speeds

I will not bother naming names but some of the more prominant testers will always do a retest and/or average of speeds to come up with their data, I am just offering you the same procedures to test by