Author Topic: What is the Max system for AH  (Read 2234 times)

Offline Overlag

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2004, 04:03:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 2bighorn
Interesting discussion....

Skuzzy, when will AH2 make good use of Intel Hyper Threaded CPUs?

As of now, AH uses one thread close to 100, other about 25% in average, total CPU load 60-75% in average.


not many games use SMP, infact you can count them on one hand
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline Skuzzy

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2004, 04:10:40 PM »
You know Llama, I think Intel is missing a great oppertunity.  While they are stumbling around trying to figure out how to build the next processor, they should build a support chipset for the AMD CPU.
I would buy that in a heartbeat.  I know they will not do it, but it would be a killer combination.
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Offline eagl

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2004, 04:18:30 PM »
mettech,

Part of the answer you're looking for is that no matter what hardware you buy TODAY, you probably can't get sustained 30 fps in AH2 under all situations with all sliders set to max detail/range, 1024 textures, 1600x1200, 8xFSAA, and 16xAnsio Filtering.  Unlike an older bit of software like quake3, there is no combination of hardware on the market that will let you turn up every graphics option to the max at the highest resolution with the highest level of image quality, and still get smooth framerates.

Anyone who claims they can do so will get $50 from me if they can prove it at a con, otherwise they're just embellishing the truth, talking smack, flat-out lying, whatever you want to call it.

I personally don't consider anything below 40 fps to be "smooth" anyhow since I can see stutters at any fps below 60, but everyone has their own personal level they consider to be smooth and mine is heavily biased by reflexes I gained flying a real fighter.  Most people aren't quite as picky about framerate and stutters as I am :)

FWIW, I run 1280x1024 with the sliders turned down to get me 40-70 fps most of the time, but FSAA turned up because I am using a really fast graphics card matched to a relatively slow cpu (nvidia 6800GT and athlon XP 2000+).  Turning down the graphics detail and range sliders dramatically increases my framerate so I can run a high resolution and then my graphics card can also run FSAA with only a tiny drop in framerate.  I also run 512 textures because even though I get no framerate decrease at all running 1024 textures, my cpu/FSB/memory/mobo/AGP/overall system is slow enough that I get an annoying pause when the textures transition to higher detail levels during fights.

I guess the lesson is that there is no achievable "max" for AH2 with current hardware, so you have to buy whatever hardware you can afford and then decide what graphics details are important for you and adjust the settings appropriately.  A guy running an ATI 9600 may be perfectly happy running settings that get him "smooth" graphics without as much detail, while a guy with the most modern system in the world might be dissatisfied no matter how he sets up the game, because their priorites are different.  If you want image quality and FSAA above all else, you will need to include a current generation video card into your system budget.  If you really like the trees and don't mind running a lower resolution with smaller textures and no FSAA, spend your money on the fastest cpu you can buy instead of spending more on the graphics card.  Or just buy the best you can afford and upgrade whenever you become dissatisfied.  That's sort of what I do, and it's why I am using an old cpu and new vid card, because that's where my priorites led me.
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Offline Rolex

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2004, 05:14:59 AM »
This is a great discussion. Thanks everyone (and Skuzzy particularly for taking the time to post his knowledge). I'm lurking and following because I'm also considering a processor upgrade to go with my ATI9800 Pro, which means new mobo, ram, hard disk and (yuck...) Windows XP.

I really, really, really do not want to go to XP, but I suppose the ram capacity will be worth it. I'll only use the machine for AH. I'll use existing box or my mac for other applications, web access and email.

I want to build an AH Only PC and I've been waiting for PCI Express and supposed new processors, but it looks like they may take awhile to get here.

There are others following this so please continue with the advice!

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2004, 07:12:40 AM »
Just setup a dual boot.  I have XP and AHII (along with a few other programs I use every day) on one HD, and Win98 with my other stuff on another HD.  Last thing I ever wanted to do was go from 98 to XP, but I have to admit it has its advantages.  Still not ready to give up my 98 altogether.  Someday I'll get everything to run on Linux, and then its bye bye Windows lol.

Offline MOSQ

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2004, 03:14:03 PM »
Rolex, since you asked for a continuation!

My MSI K8N Neo mobo uses the new Nforce 3 chipset. As Overlag and Skuzzy mentioned, all chipsets have a few warts. No doubt the Nforce 4's will too.

If you're contemplating the MSI K8N Neo, here's my list of watchouts:

1) It's picky about recognizing the gameports on certain sound cards. This is a non-issue if you use USB joystick/throttle/rudders. But I'm still using my old CH analog stuff, so the gameport is very important. I could not get the mobo to recognize the GP on my first sound card, a Turtle Beach. On checking the MSI forum, I found a few others having problems with the Audigy II gameport. I tried an old SB Live, it worked fine. A subsequent purchase of an Audigy plain has worked fine. Sounds great and the gameport works great.

2) It's picky about RAM. Several types of RAM won't work at all, including some of the expensive stuff. I don't care about overclocking to the max, so I bought Corsair Value Ram, it works fine. There's alist of what does and does not work at the MSI user's forum website, along with a great "Basic Building Tips" sticky thread. http://forum.msi.com.tw/board.php?boardid=28

3) Although the MSI mobo has three ram slots, it will really only work with two of them filled if using DDR400!! And it matters which slots have which types of RAM in them. So plan your ram purchase accordingly.

Other than those three, it works great. MSI has an auto web bios and driver update software included that works for keeping the chipset bios and drivers fully up to date with no problem.

If you're looking at a different mobo such as ASUS, be sure to check their user forums BEFORE you buy the MOBO, RAM, and other stuff. It will save you a lot of frustration.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2004, 01:01:16 PM by MOSQ »

Offline Rolex

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2004, 04:38:41 PM »
Thanks for the secret decoder ring info on the MSI K8N.

Rolex's Rule: You will always learn about an obscure mobo wart on an obscure BBS after you've researched for 100 hours and installed the mother.

I have all USB CH Products gear. Sound cards give me fits with every build. I have a closet full of them. To be honest, one reason I have stayed with 98SE is because I have a 6 year-old, $10 Yamaha sound card that works better than anything on the market today. If I were a conspiracy theory type of guy, I'd swear something fishy is going on in the sound card business...

I've used AMD with Gigabyte and Asus lately, but I'm leaning toward Intel this time.

Offline SilverFox

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2004, 07:40:30 PM »
Lots of good discussion here, even if some of it did get a little testy :)   but I really agree with Skuzzy about a point he has made continuously.  Balancing Act   If your building a system its extremely important to match not only the ram modules, but everything else as well.

I like Intel so my CPU and my MOBO Chipset are Intel.  Now, its not as fast as an Athlon64 but it runs cooler by reports I've read.  Thing is, I researched the Intel site and matched the chipset with the RAM cause Intel provides compatibility tests on their site.  I researched the MoBo and got the current top rated board with the 865 chipset as rated by   http://www.motherboards.org

A balanced system with < 3 yr old technology should work fine in AHII.  But I'm not gonna try and win eagl's bet :)
But with a 3DMark05 of 4696 I'm comfortable turning on the eye candy.  
;)

Offline Kev367th

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2004, 03:08:11 PM »
The VIA PCI lock will only affect people who overclock, for us normal users you'll never know about. All it does is lock the PCI/AGP bus to default speed while you overclock the CPU.

Dual CPU's - Wouldn't it pe possible using Win 2k Server to set processor affinity and make use of dual cpus?

Max system now with price no object -
AMD FX-55
ASUS AV8
2 x 512mb Corsair TwinX LL
nVidia 6800GT, or ATI x800
« Last Edit: November 07, 2004, 03:10:30 PM by Kev367th »
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T
Asus M3N-HT mobo
2 x 2Gb Corsair 1066 DDR2 memory

Offline Overlag

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2004, 04:51:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
The VIA PCI lock will only affect people who overclock, for us normal users you'll never know about. All it does is lock the PCI/AGP bus to default speed while you overclock the CPU.

Dual CPU's - Wouldn't it pe possible using Win 2k Server to set processor affinity and make use of dual cpus?

Max system now with price no object -
AMD FX-55
ASUS A8V
2 x 512mb Corsair TwinX LL
nVidia 6800GT, or ATI x800


if skuzzy means the PCI lock as in holding the PCI clock at 33 then even Nvidia have this issue too. And most (if not all) new VIA boards dont have PCI lock issues now.

oh and the dual cpu thing wont ever work because AHII only uses one thread....only good thing with dual is the fact that one logical cpu can handle the desktop/windows, and the other handles the game, which will make alt tabing much faster????
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline Overlag

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2004, 04:54:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SilverFox

I like Intel so my CPU and my MOBO Chipset are Intel.  Now, its not as fast as an Athlon64 but it runs cooler by reports I've read.
;)


Intel DO NOT run cooler they put out well over 100watts compaired to 80 for the latest A64s. A64s also use alot less power overall, making the motheroboard/psu cooler.
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline mettech

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Thank you all
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2004, 06:26:24 AM »
Questions:

Would the AMD 3500 hold any advantage over the 3200 in AHII, with both systems using the ATI X800 Pro, or the X800 XT?

 Does the X800 card make the  3200 or the 3500 CPU the bottle neck? Or will my ATI 9600 XT be better.

Can I even  get the 3200 with the X800 XT since it uses PCIe?

What power supply wattage should I look for?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2004, 06:30:06 AM by mettech »

Offline Overlag

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Re: Thank you all
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2004, 08:59:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mettech
Questions:

Would the AMD 3500 hold any advantage over the 3200 in AHII, with both systems using the ATI X800 Pro, or the X800 XT?

 Does the X800 card make the  3200 or the 3500 CPU the bottle neck? Or will my ATI 9600 XT be better.

Can I even  get the 3200 with the X800 XT since it uses PCIe?

What power supply wattage should I look for?


there are AGP X800XT's around

AHII itself will be fine with the 9600xt you've already got.... other games however will take advantage of the X800XT....games like doom, farcry, HL2, FS2004 etc etc.....
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline SilverFox

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2004, 02:22:33 PM »
:lol   see you in the unfriendly skys overlag.  

Tired of the unecessary flames, plenty of civil discussion elsewhere.

Offline Karnak

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What is the Max system for AH
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2004, 05:39:14 PM »
My planned upgrade will be an Athlon64 3500+ on an nForce4 chipset, 1gb RAM and running a couple of nVidia 6800 PCI Express cards in SLI.

What I actually end up with will be determined by by actual budget.;)
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