In need of a few pointers please

[Vortex]

Greetings all,

I just recently jumped into AH after a very long hiatus from online sims, so you'll have to bear with me if some of these questions seem a tad, er, dweebish. Hehe, after all, I am now, so its to be expected :->

First off, I'm having a few problems with the in game clipboard map. Navigating it to be exact. How does one move the "center point" around on the map so that you can pick specific areas to zoom in on? Whenever I hit the "+" button it zooms me into the bottom right corner.

Second, flap useage. Many moons ago when I flew AW flaps for the most part were a great aid when the fight got slow. Basically all flaps functioned along the lines of the Fowler flaps wherein you got a nice bit of lift at a pretty insignificant cost in drag when using them. I'm assuming this isn't the case here except with the planes that had such flaps, like the 38L. However I haven't found much info thus far on flap useage so I was kind of curious what the consensus was on them? When things get low and slow are they your savior or your bane?

Third, fuel. Hehe, this one caught me. Last time I strapped myself into a virtual cockpit a 50% fuel load would keep a Jug fly'n for a good part of the evening. I've found out first hand that's definitely not the case here :->. I realize each plane will chew through a given % load at significantly different rates. I was wondering though if there might be rough values that you'll load if, say, you're going to fight a sector away, or a couple sectors, etc? This might be too open ended to answer I guess. I know 50% doesn't cut it for travelling a sector away...tried that tonight in a 38 and ran out of gas not long after arriving *grins*.

And that brings me to my last question (for now anyway). During that above mentioned deadstick in the 38 I noticed something that seemed rather odd...that plane has virtually no drag. Diving in on a Spit with 300kts I was able to stallfight him (again, I'm deadsticked here) and come away with the kill and still holding a few hundred knots airspeed. I've noticed that even with the "dive break" extended that this plane doesn't really slow down much at all. There's not much for E bleed on that beast. Following this I took one up offline and got it to 10k and 250kts then cut the engine and held alt. This thing should start to drop airspeed like nobodies business. Oddly its decrease in airspeed was pretty slight. I didn't bother timing it mind you as I just wanted to see if the observation was consistant.

So the question here is is this sort of E-holding ability specific to just the 38, or is it something common across all the planes in AH? I ask this because exploiting the E-bleed of certtain planes used to be a pretty common tactic when I last played online, thinking back to AW mostly here. I'm just curious if its a significant factor here in AH with some of the planes or if this e-holding one see's in the 38 is part of the underlying flight model rather than specifc to any given plane?

Thanks in advance folks!

Vortex

[Kweassa]

1. The clip board initially zooms in and out according to your current place on the map, but you may scan around other areas by shift clicking on the map and dragging it. When you have to reset it so the map centers you again, just press esc twice so u put away the clip board and bring it out again.

2. Flaps have simular effect in AH in low speed dog fighting, just some planes have better results, and others don't. In the case of P-51s and P-47s, or P-38s even, the flaps will open 1 or 2 notches even under speeds of over 200 mph, acting as combat flaps, which increases the turn rate by increasing lift but increases a bit of drag that bleeds down the planes energy state. But it does not increase the turn rates dramatically as seen in some other simulations, just enough to provide you with a better turn stability and lower stall speed.

3. The rate of fuel needed is drastically different between planes. P-51s fly horribly long even with 50%, Bf 109s should never try going somewhere without full fuel and drop tanks. Generally, if you plan to travel more than one sector(25 miles), taking 100% fuel is a good idea unless you are in a P-51. If you would get up for close area base defense, 75, or 50% is enough.

4. I cannot comment on this, since the incident you described seems indeed strange to me too. P-38s turn better than most US planes and German planes, but definately no where near Spitfires. Either the Spit pilot you have encountered was a total newbie, or he already lost a lot of energy during an encounter prior yours. P-38s are not planes that retain E much, at least to the length of my knowledge it doesn't. When it is accelerated over 400 mph at low alts, it will lose its speed and fall between 300~400 mph within 30 seconds. I'm sure P-38 experts like Tac can answer this question better than me.

[Seeker]

"Second, flap useage. "

Same as AW, except:

They won't deploy until you're much slower than you want to be (fights in AH are about 30-50 MPH faster than AW, you're very rárely slow enough to get them out in a turn fight in AH)and they auto retract as speed rises, so you can't do the AW "nose down hanging on the flaps as speed brakes" tight turns in the 38 as you could in AW. However, some planes, the Stang, Jug and 38 have combat flaps which will come out at up to 250 MPH.

Fuel usage is an arena setting; and in the MA it's set quite high to avoid the Spit with 25% syndrome we had in AW. Take 50% and drop tanks, that's what we all do  

E, and drag, are funny in AH. E loss (and gain, important in the 38) ARE modeled. However, you're used to AW's drag. Here, drag's not the E pit that it was in AW, but manouvering is..turns burn E here more that AW, gliding burns less. Plus the influence of the prop is bigger. You glide much, much further on dead engines than you do on throttled down engines, as the slow running prop seems to have more drag than the rest of the air frame. This is one of the things that makes dead stick landings harder.

And....welcome to AH

[Tac]

"First off, I'm having a few problems with the in game clipboard map. Navigating it to be exact. How does one move the "center point" around on the map so that you can pick specific areas to zoom in on? Whenever I hit the "+" button it zooms me into the bottom right corner."

Press ESC for the clipboard map. Use the INSERT and DEL keys to zoom in and out of the map, with the zoom being centered on your plane's location.

"Second, flap useage. Many moons ago when I flew AW flaps for the most part were a great aid when the fight got slow. Basically all flaps functioned along the lines of the Fowler flaps wherein you got a nice bit of lift at a pretty insignificant cost in drag when using them. I'm assuming this isn't the case here except with the planes that had such flaps, like the 38L. However I haven't found much info thus far on flap useage so I was kind of curious what the consensus was on them? When things get low and slow are they your savior or your bane?"

To put it short, P51, Me262 and P-47's flaps give them more turn rate at speeds above 200mph, and helps them in stability below 200mph. LW planes and RAF shouldnt use flaps unless they below 150mph.. and even then I think they dont help much. Japanese planes dont need flaps at all, 'xcept for the Ki61 which does get some help in stallfights by using them. P-38 gets a HUGE boost by flaps, especially above 20k for speeds 200-250 and at any alt for speeds 200-90mph.

"Third, fuel. Hehe, this one caught me. Last time I strapped myself into a virtual cockpit a 50% fuel load would keep a Jug fly'n for a good part of the evening. I've found out first hand that's definitely not the case here :->. I realize each plane will chew through a given % load at significantly different rates. I was wondering though if there might be rough values that you'll load if, say, you're going to fight a sector away, or a couple sectors, etc? This might be too open ended to answer I guess. I know 50% doesn't cut it for travelling a sector away...tried that tonight in a 38 and ran out of gas not long after arriving *grins*."

Fuel in the MA has a burn rate, I think its 1.5. In order of range/time flying: P-51, P-38, P47, Mossie, Me262 (not much fuel as a 109 but it goes a long way at 500mph!), 190's, 109's, spits/n1k/zeke/ki61. The higher you go the more fuel you save. A P-38 can go 3/4th of the Ndisles (ISLANDS) map with 100 internal fuel, and go from one end of the map to the other and almost back to half of it using 2 dt's and staying above 25k.

Fuel consumption can also be reduced by lowering RPM and Manifold pressure when cruising. You can squeeze almost 1/3rd more range in a 109 doing this...providing you dont enter combat.

WEP consumes fuel at a faster rate.

"And that brings me to my last question (for now anyway). During that above mentioned deadstick in the 38 I noticed something that seemed rather odd...that plane has virtually no drag. Diving in on a Spit with 300kts I was able to stallfight him (again, I'm deadsticked here) and come away with the kill and still holding a few hundred knots airspeed. I've noticed that even with the "dive break" extended that this plane doesn't really slow down much at all."

P-38 does not have dive breaks. They are dive flaps. They do NOT lower your airspeed.

"There's not much for E bleed on that beast. Following this I took one up offline and got it to 10k and 250kts then cut the engine and held alt. This thing should start to drop airspeed like nobodies business. Oddly its decrease in airspeed was pretty slight. I didn't bother timing it mind you as I just wanted to see if the observation was consistant."

38 has great gliding characteristics. If you cut the engine it will retain the speed while on level flight for some time, then it will drop.

The 38 has a LOT of drag though, get the plane to 400mph then level.. see how quickly the speed drops to 300'ish. With engines on. I believe the drag is in the props, if you cut throttle you can glide for longer, if you turn OFF the engines, you can glide even better. Heck, I find it EXTREMELY hard to land a 38 with engines shot out and going faster than 150mph..because the plane WONT lose speed even with full flaps down.. so I end up "floating" on top of the runway trying to make the gears make contact with the dirt until I run out of space. So yes, I do believe the drag on the 38 is a bit off, seems to be all in the props and little on the airframe.

Try this: Go to 30k in it, dive 90 degrees down with full wep and trimmed on the dive.

You wont even break 510mph. Plane will never shed wings. It will shake like an arthritic chihuahua but it will hold together. at around 5k you can use trim elevator up to pull from the dive (the dive flaps dont do zilch, and the elevator for some reason DOES work when compressed.. very odd).

[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: Tac ]

[Vortex]

Great info guys, thanks a lot! Definitely fills in the gaps nicely.

Vortex

[Vermillion]

For the clipboard, you can also use the left mouse button (on the little + and - ) to increase or decrease the size of the clipboard.  The right mouse button will zoom the map in or out.

Fuel burn unless it has changed since I was a CM, is set to 2.5 as the standard arena setting. Easy way to make sure is to take off, and time it with a known fuel load in an aircraft where you know the range.  Each sector is 25 miles square exactly.

Flaps on the P-38 in AW were a known bug for many many many years (I know because I use to squeak to Moggy and Mage about them all the time). In fact, the AW P-38 had more flap settings than the real P-38 does, and they deployed instantaneously (effectively), allowing the old Pump the Flaps manuever in the P-38. Deployment time is modeled here, which makes a big difference.  Also realize that alot of the aircraft in the game, have flaps that were designed for landings only, for example the Spit and the La5/7. Very few aircraft were designed with "combat" flaps, noteably the P-51, P-38, and I think the P-47.

[whirl]

i'm not sure what you guys are doing when it comes to TnB'en on the deck.  i consistantly outturn spits in TnB fights. as well as la7's, tipphies, and yaks. niki's too.  only the zero will really get around on a 38 quick.  mebbe you guys need to trust the low speed nose up a little more.  i can hang on the props full flaps and wep then pull a rollout and be on their 6 in no time.  there are many other low speed tricks good for the 38.  have faith in the big ole bucket.  i go into my fights "knowing" my 38 can and will win.  mebbe thats what it really takes.  if ya question your birds abilities, of course it won't perform "above and beyond" its "standard" flight envelope.

and i'm willing to meet anyone anytime in any plane, in the DA, to prove it.

[Vortex]

Actually flaps on the AW 38 weren't a bug Vermillion, they were intentionally coded that way...as were all the flaps for that matter. As you rightly note that representation for the most part was a tad wanting. That was why I asked though as I was curious what way they were trying to go with this sim.

Vortex

[Apar]

First off, I'm having a few problems with the in game clipboard map. Navigating it to be exact. How does one move the "center point" around on the map so that you can pick specific areas to zoom in on? Whenever I hit the "+" button it zooms me into the bottom right corner.

Press the shift key and scroll the map with mouse to the desired position on the map.


 

Second, flap useage. Many moons ago when I flew AW flaps for the most part were a great aid when the fight got slow. Basically all flaps functioned along the lines of the Fowler flaps wherein you got a nice bit of lift at a pretty insignificant cost in drag when using them. I'm assuming this isn't the case here except with the planes that had such flaps, like the 38L. However I haven't found much info thus far on flap useage so I was kind of curious what the consensus was on them? When things get low and slow are they your savior or your bane?  

Most planes U can't use the flaps untill under 150-160 mph, by that time your so slow that they don't help much in a fight. They can help in hammerheads though. The P51, P47 and P38 do benefit from the flaps because they can be deployed at higher speeds (1 or 2 notches) and can add to turn rate (all depending on altitude)

 

Third, fuel. Hehe, this one caught me. Last time I strapped myself into a virtual cockpit a 50% fuel load would keep a Jug fly'n for a good part of the evening. I've found out first hand that's definitely not the case here :->. I realize each plane will chew through a given % load at significantly different rates. I was wondering though if there might be rough values that you'll load if, say, you're going to fight a sector away, or a couple sectors, etc? This might be too open ended to answer I guess. I know 50% doesn't cut it for travelling a sector away...tried that tonight in a 38 and ran out of gas not long after arriving *grins*.

Try using drop tanks to get to desired location and drop em once U go into a fight. For the 190's and 109's you don't always need to take 100% fuel (with DT) to do your sortie. You can fly a long time on 75% + DT in many planes.

[ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: Apar ]