Author Topic: OK, who was Arafat?  (Read 1826 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2004, 10:06:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Shall we examine Ariel Sharon's record against Palestinian civilians back in his military days?


When he dies, we shall.

Offline Torque

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2004, 10:13:34 AM »
Ah....heck Dowd, why not throw in Kissinger, Arafat could only aspire to his international legacy.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2004, 10:31:37 AM by Torque »

Offline bozon

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2004, 10:32:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seeker
JBA; you keep reposting that piece that claims that Arafat started modern terrorism.

Do a google search for "King David Hotel".

In most other respects I agree with your point; but let's give the inventors their credit where due; 'K?

please google it and read about it.
It was the HQ of the Brittish millitary in the region, therefor a military target. Also, the brits were given a short warning about the place being set up, which they ignored.

The "Irgun" or "etzel" or "National millitary organization" whatever you call them were a semi-terroristic organization, but their targets were millitary and attempts were made to minimize civillian casualties. What more, they represented less than 20% of the population and Ben-Gurion, leader of the "Hagana" representing over 70% of the population, knew how to restrain them when needed - including by force. Unlike Arafat control over the other factions.

Bozon
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Offline JBA

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2004, 12:08:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Shall we examine Ariel Sharon's record against Palestinian civilians back in his military days?


your jokeing right?
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Offline Nashwan

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2004, 12:09:47 PM »
Quote

The "Irgun" or "etzel" or "National millitary organization" whatever you call them were a semi-terroristic organization, but their targets were millitary and attempts were made to minimize civillian casualties.


Bozon that's not really true.

Irgun murdered Lord Moyne in Cairo, they murdered soldiers they had kidnapped and held hostage, they blew up the British embassy in Rome, but above all they murdered Arab civilians.

It was Irgun, for example, that threw a bomb into a group of Arab labourers outside the Haifa refinery, which killed 6 and led to the refinery riot that killed 41 Jews.

Irgun murdered hundreds of Arab civilians from the 30s onwards.

Quote
What more, they represented less than 20% of the population and Ben-Gurion, leader of the "Hagana" representing over 70% of the population, knew how to restrain them when needed - including by force. Unlike Arafat control over the other factions.


Ben Gurion did not move against the Irgun until after the Israeli state was founded. Indeed, Ben Gurion and the Jewish agency supported and controlled Irgun during the United Resistance, even whilst denouncing them publicly:

"It is a tragedy that matters in Palestine have reached such a pass. The Jewish Agency abhors the use of violence as a weapon in the political struggle, but realizes that its ability to impose restraint has been severely tested by the continued policy (of the British government), which the Jews regard as fatal for them."

That was issued when Ben Gurion was actually ordering Irgun attacks. The parallels with the Palestinian Authority (condemning terrorism whilst at least tacitly supporting it) are striking.

A 1947 British report to the UN on conditions  in Palestine:

Quote
"The right of any community to use force as a means of gaining its political ends is not admitted in the British Commonwealth. Since the beginning of 1945 the Jews have implicitly claimed this right and have (sic) supported by an organized campaign of lawlessness, murder and sabotage their contention that, whatever other interests might be concerned, nothing should be allowed to stand in the way of a Jewish State and free Jewish immigration into Palestine. It is true that large numbers of Jews do not today attempt to defend the crimes that have been committed in the name of these political aspirations. They recognize the damage caused to their good name by these methods in the court of world opinion. Nevertheless, the Jewish community of Palestine still publicly refuses its help to the Administration in suppressing terrorism, on the ground that the Administration's policy is opposed to Jewish interests. The converse of this attitude is clear, and its result, however much the Jewish leaders themselves may not wish it, has been to give active encouragement to the dissidents and freer scope to their activities


Again, the parallels to Palestinian support for terrorism is striking.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2004, 12:18:12 PM by Nashwan »

Offline Muckmaw1

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2004, 12:19:08 PM »
JEFF JACOBY
Arafat the monster
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist  |  November 11, 2004

YASSER ARAFAT died at age 75, lying in bed surrounded by familiar faces. He left this world peacefully, unlike the thousands of victims he sent to early graves.

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In a better world, the PLO chief would have met his end on a gallows, hanged for mass murder much as the Nazi chiefs were hanged at Nuremberg. In a better world, the French president would not have paid a visit to the bedside of such a monster. In a better world, George Bush would not have said, on hearing the first reports that Arafat had died, "God bless his soul."

God bless his soul? What a grotesque idea! Bless the soul of the man who brought modern terrorism to the world? Who sent his agents to slaughter athletes at the Olympics, blow airliners out of the sky, bomb schools and pizzerias, machine-gun passengers in airline terminals? Who lied, cheated, and stole without compunction? Who inculcated the vilest culture of Jew-hatred since the Third Reich? Human beings might stoop to bless a creature so evil -- as indeed Arafat was blessed, with money, deference, even a Nobel Prize -- but God, I am quite sure, will damn him for eternity.

Arafat always inspired flights of nonsense from Western journalists, and his last two weeks were no exception.

Derek Brown wrote in The Guardian that Arafat's "undisputed courage as a guerrilla leader" was exceeded only "by his extraordinary courage" as a peace negotiator. But it is an odd kind of courage that expresses itself in shooting unarmed victims -- or in signing peace accords and then flagrantly violating their terms.

Another commentator, columnist Gwynne Dyer, asked, "So what did Arafat do right?" The answer: He drew worldwide attention to the Palestinian cause, "for the most part by successful acts of terror." In other words, butchering innocent human beings was "right," since it served an ulterior political motive. No doubt that thought brings daily comfort to all those who were forced to bury a child, parent, or spouse because of Arafat's "successful" terrorism.

Some journalists couldn't wait for Arafat's actual death to begin weeping for him. Take the BBC's Barbara Plett, who burst into tears on the day he was airlifted out of the West Bank. "When the helicopter carrying the frail old man rose above his ruined compound," Plett reported from Ramallah, "I started to cry." Normal people don't weep for brutal murderers, but Plett made it clear that her empathy for Arafat -- whom she praised as "a symbol of Palestinian unity, steadfastness, and resistance" -- was heartfelt:

"I remember well when the Israelis re-conquered the West Bank more than two years ago, how they drove their tanks and bulldozers into Mr. Arafat's headquarters, trapping him in a few rooms, and throwing a military curtain around Ramallah. I remember how Palestinians admired his refusal to flee under fire. They told me: `Our leader is sharing our pain, we are all under the same siege.' And so was I." Such is the state of journalism at the BBC, whose reporters do not seem to have any trouble reporting, dry-eyed, on the plight of Arafat's victims. (That is, when they mention them -- which Plett's teary bon voyage to Arafat did not.)

And what about those victims? Why were they scarcely remembered in this Arafat death watch?

How is it possible to reflect on Arafat's most enduring legacy -- the rise of modern terrorism -- without recalling the legions of men, women, and children whose lives he and his followers destroyed? If Osama bin Laden were on his deathbed, would we neglect to mention all those he murdered on 9/11?

It would take an encyclopedia to catalog all of the evil Arafat committed. But that is no excuse for not trying to recall at least some of it.

Perhaps his signal contribution to the practice of political terror was the introduction of warfare against children. On one black date in May 1974, three PLO terrorists slipped from Lebanon into the northern Israeli town of Ma'alot. They murdered two parents and a child whom they found at home, then seized a local school, taking more than 100 boys and girls hostage and threatening to kill them unless a number of imprisoned terrorists were released. When Israeli troops attempted a rescue, the terrorists exploded hand grenades and opened fire on the students. By the time the horror ended, 25 people were dead; 21 of them were children.

Thirty years later, no one speaks of Ma'alot anymore. The dead children have been forgotten. Everyone knows Arafat's name, but who ever recalls the names of his victims?

So let us recall them: Ilana Turgeman. Rachel Aputa. Yocheved Mazoz. Sarah Ben-Shim'on. Yona Sabag. Yafa Cohen. Shoshana Cohen. Michal Sitrok. Malka Amrosy. Aviva Saada. Yocheved Diyi. Yaakov Levi. Yaakov Kabla. Rina Cohen. Ilana Ne'eman. Sarah Madar. Tamar Dahan. Sarah Soper. Lili Morad. David Madar. Yehudit Madar. The 21 dead children of Ma'alot -- 21 of the thousands of who died at Arafat's command.

Offline bozon

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2004, 01:20:39 PM »
Nashwan, that's why I called them semi-terrorist. The difference is between having defined targets and having random targets. Their choise of targets was very questionable in many cases, but it wasn't normaly random people in the street.
The Hagana, had many actions against the Irgun in the late 40's toward the decleration of the state. The right wing parties still mention the "season" in political debates.

The trouble with palestinian terrorism is that it targets their supporters as well as their enemies at random. I am a target for them, no matter my views and actions on their behaf.

A lot of the Irgun actions were a shame upon the Israelies, and their decendents, the Likud party is still a shame.

Bozon
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Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
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Offline Dowding

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2004, 01:34:11 PM »
Quote
your jokeing right?


No I am not jokeing or even joking.

It's documented fact. Sharon has had an illustrious career, both in the military and politics. In 1953 he lead the attack on the village of Qibya in Jordan, which killed 69 civilians, through the blowing up of 50 houses while the civilians were still inside. He masterminded the 1982 invasion of Lebanon and was removed from office a year later by a tribunal which found him indirectly responsible for the massacre of hundreds of Palestinians in an Israeli controlled refugee camp.

But I'm sure he's a nice guy under that bloated, bigoted, old war criminal facade.
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Offline Sikboy

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2004, 02:53:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
That language just turns me off. I stop reading. Maybe you had something worthwhile to say....


I agree. It should have read: "Dead Jewish Babies"

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Offline RedTop

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Re: OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2004, 03:04:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by tapakeg
Would someone please fill me in on who REALLY Arafat was and what he stood for?  I have grown up knowing of him and could identify him, (for god sakes bart simpsons changed clothes more often)
I know he was the leader of the PLO.  
He won the Nobel Peace Prize.  

NOW....

Who was he?
What exactly was the PLO?
Why do the PLO and Isreal hate each other so often?...Gazaa
How could a murderer and a terrorist (as depicted on this BBS ) win the Peace Prize?

I have been watching the news and realized i did not know anything about him or the region at all.  

Small words,  maybe even pictures     :)

Tapakeg


Why care? He's dead. :aok
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Offline Mighty1

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2004, 03:07:05 PM »
^Maybe tapakeg needs a new paperweight.:D
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Offline Otto

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2004, 03:13:12 PM »
"How could a murderer and a terrorist (as depicted on this BBS ) win the Peace Prize?

We all like to know the answer to that one.  My guess is it has something to do with Europe's inablity to tell 'right from wrong' or 'good from evil'.

Offline Dowding

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2004, 03:16:13 PM »
And the US has that ability in spades of course...

Shah of Iran
Saddam Hussein
Pinochet

All countries act in accordance with political expediency. Right and wrong doesn't come into it most of the time.
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Offline Silat

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2004, 03:23:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
No no, Silat just has this uncanny ability to find the most unbiased sources on the net! ... Really! :lol

Let me see if I can find an article on Sharon on a Hamas site. It should be just as fair and unbiased.


By the way GS please feel free to dispute any of the info from the write up. I look forward to reading it.
That would actually be a much better way to present your side.
+Silat
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Offline slimm50

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2004, 03:25:03 PM »
Arafat and the PLO in general are the political football of the Middle East: nobody over there gives a rat's bellybutton about the PLO, but they make for good PR if you're a muslim and say you support Arafat. To the Muslim leaders the PLO is just a good source of bodies to strap bombs to. Just another resource, like oil, or trees. Back in the 40s or 50s or maybe it was the 60s, the PLO want to live in Jordan, but Jordan wouldn't have them. Same with other Muslim countries: nobody wanted them in their back yards.  Back in those days Yassar was thought of by most western counties in the same light that Bin Laden is thought of today. One of my biggest fears is that Bin Laden will hang on long enough to achieve some modicom political status, like Yassar has. The younger generation then won't realize what a dirt bag Osama really is and will seek to accord him some sort of legitemacy.