Author Topic: OK, who was Arafat?  (Read 1892 times)

Offline SirLoin

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2004, 08:27:41 AM »
Yes,but why would you assume he died of AIDS?...??

What is your source?..You can't look at someone and say.."AIDS"
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Offline AVRO1

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2004, 08:32:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mighty1
Like I said they both did things but who constantly threw the first punch?

The UN has backed Arafat for many years so why give them the opportunity to come in and spout more hate for Israel?


I remember an attack by Jewish extremists in a mosque that killed 30 people which started a streak of violence.
I also remember Rabin being murdered by a Jewish extremist.
Seems to me some Jews don't want peace anymore the Hamas.

The UN hates Israel? Proof please? Or just anti-UN bias again?

Offline Ripsnort

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2004, 08:37:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
Yes,but why would you assume he died of AIDS?...??

What is your source?..You can't look at someone and say.."AIDS"


You don't die of AIDS. You die from symtoms of AIDS.  First off, Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath said last Monday that all types of cancer had been ruled out.

Initial blood tests performed in the West Bank revealed a low blood platelet count. That is a symtom of AIDS. With leukemia and other forms of cancer ruled out, the list of possible diseases is narrowing.

A low blood platelet count is a sign of a weakened immune system. In addition to cancer, the low count could be attributed to bleeding ulcers, colitis, liver disease, lupus, or HIV. It is believed that ulcers and colitis have already been ruled out.

Arafat has lost a considerable amount of body weight. Hopital d'Instruction des Armees de Percy, southwest of Paris, also has some of France's best HIV/AIDS doctors.

For several years there have been suggestions that Arafat was bisexual.

A deputy chief of the Romanian Foreign intelligence un the Caeucescu regrime who defected to the west in 1978 said in his memoirs that the Romanian Gov't bugged Arafat and had recordings of the Arafat in orgies with his body guards. Combined with the fact that no diagnosis was officially given makes me all the more suspicious.

Offline Dowding

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2004, 08:38:52 AM »
Quote
The UN has backed Arafat for many years so why give them the opportunity to come in and spout more hate for Israel?


The UN has backed Arafat in what way? I know it is simpler to think of the UN as one body, but in terms of operation it's essentially the Security Council.

As for spouting hate, you mean the resolutions supported by the UK, France etc criticizing Israeli expansion onto the West Bank, vetoed by the US? Your definition of hate is a little awry.
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Offline SirLoin

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2004, 08:57:45 AM »
Ok sorry Rip..That is interesting reading.
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Offline JBA

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2004, 09:04:28 AM »
This was arfat.

Arafat the monster
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist  |  November 11, 2004

YASSER ARAFAT died at age 75, lying in bed surrounded by familiar faces. He left this world peacefully, unlike the thousands of victims he sent to early graves.

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In a better world, the PLO chief would have met his end on a gallows, hanged for mass murder much as the Nazi chiefs were hanged at Nuremberg. In a better world, the French president would not have paid a visit to the bedside of such a monster. In a better world, George Bush would not have said, on hearing the first reports that Arafat had died, "God bless his soul."

God bless his soul? What a grotesque idea! Bless the soul of the man who brought modern terrorism to the world? Who sent his agents to slaughter athletes at the Olympics, blow airliners out of the sky, bomb schools and pizzerias, machine-gun passengers in airline terminals? Who lied, cheated, and stole without compunction? Who inculcated the vilest culture of Jew-hatred since the Third Reich? Human beings might stoop to bless a creature so evil -- as indeed Arafat was blessed, with money, deference, even a Nobel Prize -- but God, I am quite sure, will damn him for eternity.

Arafat always inspired flights of nonsense from Western journalists, and his last two weeks were no exception.

Derek Brown wrote in The Guardian that Arafat's "undisputed courage as a guerrilla leader" was exceeded only "by his extraordinary courage" as a peace negotiator. But it is an odd kind of courage that expresses itself in shooting unarmed victims -- or in signing peace accords and then flagrantly violating their terms.

Another commentator, columnist Gwynne Dyer, asked, "So what did Arafat do right?" The answer: He drew worldwide attention to the Palestinian cause, "for the most part by successful acts of terror." In other words, butchering innocent human beings was "right," since it served an ulterior political motive. No doubt that thought brings daily comfort to all those who were forced to bury a child, parent, or spouse because of Arafat's "successful" terrorism.

Some journalists couldn't wait for Arafat's actual death to begin weeping for him. Take the BBC's Barbara Plett, who burst into tears on the day he was airlifted out of the West Bank. "When the helicopter carrying the frail old man rose above his ruined compound," Plett reported from Ramallah, "I started to cry." Normal people don't weep for brutal murderers, but Plett made it clear that her empathy for Arafat -- whom she praised as "a symbol of Palestinian unity, steadfastness, and resistance" -- was heartfelt:

"I remember well when the Israelis re-conquered the West Bank more than two years ago, how they drove their tanks and bulldozers into Mr. Arafat's headquarters, trapping him in a few rooms, and throwing a military curtain around Ramallah. I remember how Palestinians admired his refusal to flee under fire. They told me: `Our leader is sharing our pain, we are all under the same siege.' And so was I." Such is the state of journalism at the BBC, whose reporters do not seem to have any trouble reporting, dry-eyed, on the plight of Arafat's victims. (That is, when they mention them -- which Plett's teary bon voyage to Arafat did not.)

And what about those victims? Why were they scarcely remembered in this Arafat death watch?

How is it possible to reflect on Arafat's most enduring legacy -- the rise of modern terrorism -- without recalling the legions of men, women, and children whose lives he and his followers destroyed? If Osama bin Laden were on his deathbed, would we neglect to mention all those he murdered on 9/11?

It would take an encyclopedia to catalog all of the evil Arafat committed. But that is no excuse for not trying to recall at least some of it.

Perhaps his signal contribution to the practice of political terror was the introduction of warfare against children. On one black date in May 1974, three PLO terrorists slipped from Lebanon into the northern Israeli town of Ma'alot. They murdered two parents and a child whom they found at home, then seized a local school, taking more than 100 boys and girls hostage and threatening to kill them unless a number of imprisoned terrorists were released. When Israeli troops attempted a rescue, the terrorists exploded hand grenades and opened fire on the students. By the time the horror ended, 25 people were dead; 21 of them were children.

Thirty years later, no one speaks of Ma'alot anymore. The dead children have been forgotten. Everyone knows Arafat's name, but who ever recalls the names of his victims?

So let us recall them: Ilana Turgeman. Rachel Aputa. Yocheved Mazoz. Sarah Ben-Shim'on. Yona Sabag. Yafa Cohen. Shoshana Cohen. Michal Sitrok. Malka Amrosy. Aviva Saada. Yocheved Diyi. Yaakov Levi. Yaakov Kabla. Rina Cohen. Ilana Ne'eman. Sarah Madar. Tamar Dahan. Sarah Soper. Lili Morad. David Madar. Yehudit Madar. The 21 dead children of Ma'alot -- 21 of the thousands of who died at Arafat's command.
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Offline JBA

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Re: OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2004, 09:06:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by tapakeg

How could a murderer and a terrorist (as depicted on this BBS )
win a peace prize.


Becuase Europe is full of dictator loveing P***sies.
"They effect the march of freedom with their flash drives.....and I use mine for porn. Viva La Revolution!". .ZetaNine  03/06/08
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Offline Mighty1

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2004, 09:08:50 AM »
Ok hate may be a little strong but they have in the past been more critical of the things Israel does than Pal.

Personally I think both sides are to blame for the mess they are in and hopefully things will finally straighten out.
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Offline Gunslinger

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2004, 09:32:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
That language just turns me off. I stop reading. Maybe you had something worthwhile to say....

I'll never know.

Come on Gunslinger. Everyone knows it's messed up. You're probably right with whatever you continued to say. But dead babies won't make you any freinds. They won't make your point for you. Dead babies pitched at a fence sitter, will not knock him off.

So knock it off.


You are right Nash that it isnt necesarily appropriate here BUT the point is true.  He wouldnt care if he blew up little kids going to school or relaxing in a cafe or an Isreali tank.  However, I did edit it.

Offline Gunslinger

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2004, 09:35:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Silat
Supported by liberals? Boy that is really unfair. He was supported mostly by the fanatics in the ME. And here he was supported by many administrations that were conservative and liberal.
This liberals are the enemy stuff is crap.


Sorry silat but I stand by my stance that liberal support for PLO and Hammas as glorious freedom fighters.  Maybe not all of them but its simple fact that these are terrorist organizations.

Offline JBA

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2004, 09:39:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
You are right Nash that it isnt necesarily appropriate here BUT the point is true.  He wouldnt care if he blew up little kids going to school or relaxing in a cafe or an Isreali tank.  However, I did edit it.



such as this...

Perhaps his .....introduction of warfare against children. On one black date in May 1974, three PLO terrorists slipped from Lebanon into the northern Israeli town of Ma'alot. They murdered two parents and a child whom they found at home, then seized a local school, taking more than 100 boys and girls hostage and threatening to kill them unless a number of imprisoned terrorists were released. When Israeli troops attempted a rescue, the terrorists exploded hand grenades and opened fire on the students. By the time the horror ended, 25 people were dead; 21 of them were children.

Thirty years later, no one speaks of Ma'alot anymore. The dead children have been forgotten. Everyone knows Arafat's name, but who ever recalls the names of his victims?

So let us recall them: Ilana Turgeman. Rachel Aputa. Yocheved Mazoz. Sarah Ben-Shim'on. Yona Sabag. Yafa Cohen. Shoshana Cohen. Michal Sitrok. Malka Amrosy. Aviva Saada. Yocheved Diyi. Yaakov Levi. Yaakov Kabla. Rina Cohen. Ilana Ne'eman. Sarah Madar. Tamar Dahan. Sarah Soper. Lili Morad. David Madar. Yehudit Madar. The 21 dead children of Ma'alot -- 21 of the thousands of who died at Arafat's command.
"They effect the march of freedom with their flash drives.....and I use mine for porn. Viva La Revolution!". .ZetaNine  03/06/08
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Offline Seeker

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2004, 09:44:39 AM »
JBA; you keep reposting that piece that claims that Arafat started modern terrorism.

Do a google search for "King David Hotel".

In most other respects I agree with your point; but let's give the inventors their credit where due; 'K?

Offline Dune

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2004, 09:47:56 AM »
From: MSNBC

Quote
By Walid Phares
MSNBC Analyst
Updated: 9:01 a.m. ET Nov. 11, 2004

I remember vividly the bearded man with dark glasses and his Keffiah,the Arab headdress that became equated with him in the West, as he harangued the masses on a West Beirut university campus. It was in the early 1970s and my brother and I were students in Beirut, and Yasser Arafat, the emerging leader of the Palestine Liberation Organization, was the shining star in the Arab world.

Hated by Arab regimes but feared as well, “Abu Ammar” (Arafat’s nom de guerre) had already survived one civil war in Jordan and was jumping into a second one in nearby Lebanon. His words remained inscribed in my memory: “No matter what happens, I will not accept any solution less than the liberation of all of Palestine.”

Whatever one’s opinion of the man, he remained true to those words.

Despite all of the opportunities to finalize a deal over a smaller Palestinian state, Abu Ammar never closed a deal for anything less than all of the land he envisaged to be the future Palestinian state.

But he made another proclamation that day so long ago, one he is not likely to be able to keep — at least for now.

“I will be buried in al Quds (Jerusalem) in al Aqsa Mosque,” he screamed, igniting waves of applause.

Part of the scenery
During the PLO’s years in Lebanon, from 1970-1982, I witnessed many of Arafat’s aides addressing crowds and media. He was on our TV on a daily basis. I even had some of his followers as classmates in my high school years. He became, over four decades at the leadership of the Palestinian cause, as much a part of everyday life in the Arab world as he was notorious outside of it.

 
• NBC: Tenacious
• NBC: Arab views
• Phares: Failings
• Newsweek's obituary
• Palestinian grief
• World reaction
• Video: Reactions
• Timeline: Slide show
• Possible successors
 
Basic facts about Arafat’s life, such as the date and place of his birth, are disputed.  Arafat has often claimed throughout his career that he was born in Jerusalem, though his birth certificate indicates that his actual place of birth was Cairo, Egypt. He lived with his uncle in Jerusalem after the death of his mother in 1933.

In the late 1950s, Arafat helped found the Fatah movement. Beginning as early as 1965, Fatah launched various terrorist attacks against Israeli targets. In 1969, Arafat was elected chairman of the PLO, an umbrella organization of various Palestinian groups of which Fatah was the largest. Attacks by various PLO groups become a key element of the Palestinian national movement under Arafat’s leadership.

He also kept the PLO front-and-center in the world’s news media. In 1970, the PLO wore out its welcome in Jordan after a rash of terrorist attacks, including several high-profile airliner hijackings. His eviction from Jordan sparked a civil war there, but Arafat simply moved his base of operations to Lebanon. In 1974, Arafat, wearing a gun, parlayed his notoriety and the divisions of the Cold War into an invitation to address the U.N. General Assembly.

The 1980s brought an uprising, or "intifada," in Israeli-occupied territories, as well as an Israeli intervention in Lebanon's roiling civil war. Arafat's PLO aligned with various Lebanese factions to resist the invasion before ultimately being evicted. Yet even in what appeared to be military defeat, Arafat's stature seemed to grow and a steady flow of diplomats and intermediaries made the trip to Tunis, the Tunisian capital and his now seat of exile, to explore the possibility of peace talks.

When talks finally began in the 1990s, Arafat agreed to put violence aside and pursue his aims politically. The 1993 Oslo Accords embodied this promise, and allowed Arafat and the PLO make a triumphant return to the West Bank and Gaza.

But the accords never really take root and mutual recriminations and, inevitably, violence followed. In July 2000, Arafat rejected a final bid to save the peace process in the form of a settlement offer from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak. Soon afterward, in September of that year, the second intifada was launched. He spent the last three years of his life under de facto Israeli house arrest in Nablus — a powerful symbol of how completely his legitimacy as a negotiator had collapsed.

The terror factor
In many ways, Arafat and his "Fatah" faction of the PLO were products of their times. During the Cold War, revolutionaries, Soviet-backed insurgents and even many western intellectuals regarded terrorism as a legitimate option for oppressed and overmatched peoples. Arafat, throughout his career, clung to this principle. Fatah and other PLO groups began using terror tactics in 1965, and the movement never relinquished its belief in the legitimacy of such attacks.

Some notable terrorist attacks perpetrated by the PLO and its offshoots include:

The bombing of SwissAir flight 330 in mid-flight by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in February 1970. 47 people were killed.
The slaughter of  11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in September, 1972.
The take over of the Saudi embassy in Sudan in March 1973, executing two American officials (U.S. Ambassador Cleo Noel and Charge d’ Affairs George Curtis Moore) and a Belgian citizen. U.S. intelligence officials say the National Security Agency has recordings of Arafat personally ordering the operation and the murder of the diplomats.
The hijacking of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro in October 1985, leading to the killing of a wheelchair-bound American, Leon Klinghoffer. Intelligence reports document that the instructions for the attack originated from Arafat’s headquarters in Tunis.
Since the launch of the "second intifada" in September 2000, Arafat-linked groups have been responsible for scores of terrorist attacks against innocent civilians. Documents captured by the Israelis show that Arafat and his cronies personally authorized payments to terrorists.  

The "al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade," which has taken credit for many recent attacks, is regarded by counter-terrorism officials as merely the latest version of Fatah terrorists.


Shifting alliances
Arafat’s leadership of the PLO was characterized by shifting alliances and involvement in internal wars, within a number of countries and inside the PLO as well, in addition to his warfare with Israel.

After the 1967 war, the PLO set up bases in Jordan from which it launched attacks against Israel.  The actions of the PLO destabilized the country, leading King Hussein to decide that he had to break the power of the PLO or risk losing his kingdom to the Palestinians. He
chose to attack the Palestinians, resulting in a carnage known as "Black September," after which the PLO relocated to Lebanon.

Arafat created a new bases in Lebanon from which he continued to launch attacks against
Israel. While deploying inside the small multiethnic country, Arafat’s forces engaged the Lebanese army and militias. Israel eventually responded in 1982 with an invasion of Lebanon, forcing the PLO, after the intervention of American, French and Italian peacekeeping troops, to relocate once again to Tunis.

From the 1960s to the end of the 1980s, Arafat and the PLO have also routinely sided with the Soviet Union and its allies. Arafat famously backed the Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979 during the Iranian Revolution. In 1990, he backed Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait, one of the only leaders in the world to do so.

Arafat and his agreements
Throughout his time as Palestinian leader, Arafat consistently failed to live up to agreements negotiated with his foes. His aides point to Israeli intransigence, sometimes with solid evidence. Yet Arafat's own record is erratic at best. During his Lebanese era, the PLO signed two security agreements and dozens of cease-fire accords with their opponents. These commitments were constantly breached.

The Oslo Accords of 1993 and subsequent agreements throughout the decade insisted that Arafat stop engaging in terrorism. Numerous studies and reports have demonstrated his unwillingness to meet this commitment, unless more concessions are made. The ailing leader rejected a final, comprehensive peace offer in the summer of 2000, just as a new "intifada" exploded.  

Despite previous treaties, the Palestinian legal and educational systems have not been reformed, nor have democratic institutions been properly implemented. Arafat has made only cosmetic changes to the system of dispensing Palestinian Authority funds, despite commitments to international organizations to make the system transparent.

Critics also accuse him of also failing to reform the security apparatus, insisting on retaining almost complete control over the various factions. His supporters reject these accusations as
unfair, but the uncertainty that surrounds his passing suggests that too much power remained in his hands.

Arafat’s history is bloody, long and complex. Too long, many would say, pointing to the havoc he set in motion and the agreements he flouted over the years. Yet he is loved by his sympathizers regardless of his failures. What will intrigue historians for decades is the wide gulf between his many faces, from Nobel Peace laureate and "father of the Palestinians, to the man who ordered the slaughter of thousands of innocents and, in the end, turned away from the chance to make a lasting peace between Israel and his people.


Dr. Walid Phares is an MSNBC analyst, a professor of Middle East studies, and a senior fellow with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies in Washington. Watch for his analysis on MSNBC Live, 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. ET.

Offline Dowding

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2004, 10:01:03 AM »
Shall we examine Ariel Sharon's record against Palestinian civilians back in his military days?
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Offline Dune

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OK, who was Arafat?
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2004, 10:05:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Shall we examine Ariel Sharon's record against Palestinian civilians back in his military days?


Was that the question?