A Very Good Read: Ben Steins last column

[Dago]

I posted the Ben Stein column because I thought he was dead on about celebrities being overrated in importance (especially in their own minds), and the concept that our society should view our military and emergence services personell as the true heros and people who matter.  

I never thought this would turn into a debate or even a discussion about religion.   Kind of sad to me that is has gone that way.  I personally practice more of a tolerance of differant religious views I guess.  Believe in God or not, believe in Jesus or not, I don't care.  I will believe, live and worship as I see fit, and expect others to do the same.

Oh well,

dago

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Dago

I never thought this would turn into a debate or even a discussion about religion.

lol, tune in tomorrow, it will probably be into abortion by then

[VWE]

I think it been a pretty civilised discussion so far, was hoping to pull in more european views.

[Mini D]

Originally posted by Shuckins
How incongruous it is for some to extoll "diversity" while simultaneously recoiling from a heartfelt and non-threatening statement of an individual's spirituality.

Well said.

[Sparks]

...........from a heartfelt and non-threatening statement of an individual's spirituality.

That's your interpretation of non-threatening.

Believe in God or not, believe in Jesus or not, I don't care. I will believe, live and worship as I see fit, and expect others to do the same.

On one hand you say you don't care and then immediately after you say you EXPECT others to do the same ??? that sounds like a contradiction to me.

I see morals or morality as the right thing to do as defined by God and administered by His Church. With regards to Christians (I'm Catholic), immorality is, by definition, sin.

..As defined by god ?? So without a divine being (of any sort) you wouldn't know right from wrong ??

In a non-religious sense, what is the standard, the "right thing"? Who defines it? For the non-religious person, what is morality?

The standard is what you know in yourself as JAB said - you don't have to have divine guidance to know right from wrong. IMHO the dependance on religious guidance for moral decisions is a cop-out of your personal responsibility for your actions. If the Bible / Koran / Elves Handbook says it's ok then it's ok. This is what opens the door to extremism because responsibility then becomes a matter of interpretation, not personal thought and conscience.

To go back to the article - every value he says he has discovered is actually normal social conscience - we are just not very good at it.  I ask you if I as an aetheist had written the same article with the same sentiments but without reference to a God of any sort, but finished with " I realised the values in my life were wrong and I've grown and changed" would you have looked on it in the same way ??

[Dago]

Originally posted by Sparks On one hand you say you don't care and then immediately after you say you EXPECT others to do the same ??? that sounds like a contradiction to me.

I will believe, live and worship as I see fit, and expect others to do the same.  

To supplement your comprehension, I will explain.  It's really simple, and not a demand, I will do as I want regarding religion, and I would expect others to do as they want regarding religion.  Worship, believe, or don't, doesn't matter to me.

I hope that helps with your confusion.

dago

[VWE]

I ask you if I as an aetheist had written the same article with the same sentiments but without reference to a God of any sort, but finished with " I realised the values in my life were wrong and I've grown and changed" would you have looked on it in the same way ??

Here's a challenge, find anything written by an aetheist that even comes close to Ben Steins comments.

[Sparks]

Dago - apologies - I have re-read and I took the wrong interpretation - I see how you meant it now.  (the sarcasm was not actually required though).

Here's a challenge, find anything written by an aetheist that even comes close to Ben Steins comments.

Ahhhh - here's the true colours - the only people capable of moral standing are the religious faithful ?? So aetheists are incapable of producing work of the moral fibre of a believer??  Or is that only a christian believer ??  What about a bhudist  .... or a Hindu ...... or a aborigine ??? All have beliefs and morals - but not yours ......

So perhaps these "non-threatening statements of belief" have something a little more sinister behind them - like the setting of oneself above others.

How far of a step is it from the pious proclamation of the moral superiority of your beliefs to picking up an AK47 and shooting someone who disagrees with those beliefs ???

And this is what I find common in religions - the tolerance and teaching of equality very rarely exists in practice.

[Sparks]

Not yet an article but an interesting opinion..

Article on Atheist Morality

Never heard of this guy but a Google search will bring up most things.  Some of the statements in here are equally good if not better tha Stein

Article on Tai Solarin

I sure there's lots out there.

Just found something that says Old Abe was an atheist !!!

Atheist quotes - Einstien etc

[Dago]

Originally posted by Sparks
 (the sarcasm w

Yeah, I can be kind of a jerk about that, my apologies back.

dago