Special Moves

[DaKing]

Ok on a head 2 head with another plane i always miss (problem 1), and when we go past i try to turn around in the fastest way possible, when i get to where my 6 is, he or she is allready on my 6 (problem 2), and im thinking how the !!!, i always stall when i try to copy them and what they do to me. And also when im on someones 6 they pull up and i try and follow em , but doesnt work they end up on my 6 again (problem 3)
I need help with my problems, i've only been playing it for 5 days but this is something thats concerning me.
If someone can help me this would be of great appreciation.
Thanks alot

-DaKing

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<(" ^) <("  )> <(  ")> (^ ")> Disco Fever!

[popeye]

Best way to get help with this stuff is to spend some time with a trainer.  If you post times that are convenient for you, a trainer will schedule a time to meet in the Training Arena.

popeye

[Spatula]

DaKing,

With regards to what appears to be your question - re: Out-turning your opponent after the merge - there are *a lot* of factors.

1. Types of planes involved. Your best change to out-turn your opponent is in somthing like a 202 or Spit V or Zeke. A P47 or F4-U, or 109 wont turn round very fast at all (nor do you need to - thats a different story).

2. Speed. Planes have an optimum turning speed which is different for each plane. If you want to get the best turn possible out of your plane then you have to be at (or close) to your optimum turning speed. Turn planes like the aformentioned ones will turn best at around 200-240 IAS. If your too fast your turn circle increases. If your too slow you wallow round and stall. Spits and zekes 202s N1k2s all turn very well at slow, near stall speeds. Use rudder and flaps to help in slow/stall turns. PS, dont use flaps in spits for turnin.

3. Type of turn. A flat turn, ie done on the horizontal plane is a relatively inefficient and slow means of turn. For a turn and burn plane (spits, 202s, 205, zekes, N1k2) you would be better off using some vertical component in your turn, like a slice-back, or chandelle, yoyos etc. They should get you round a little bit faster.

4. Timing of turn. The earlier you start your turn the better the chance of out-turing him - called a lead turn.

However, what i think your question really is, is something like: "i always end up with a con on my 6 cause he appears to have out-turned me, what do i need to do to avoid this?"
Sadly, there is no easy answer to that one, except spend some time with a compotent trainer or ride with someone in the MA (.join PlayerID command) and watch and learn.
You will need to decide if you are going to learn angle fighting or E fighting.

Turning with your nme isnt necessary at all -try E Fighting    

Your welcome to ride with me sometime if you want, give me a yell.

Spatula

=357th Pony Express=


[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 08-27-2000).]

[Andy Bush]

Daking

Your search for success in BFM in AH touches on both real life and sim concerns. The best advice is what has already been suggested...get yourself airborne with a trainer who can watch your basic stick and rudder skills. Your present BFM performance may suffer from either poor maneuver choice or poor G and power management, or both. We have all been down this same path so don't feel alone!

Let's take the real world first. A number of factors will weigh significantly on your ability to turn with a bandit. Chief amongst these is the speed at which you initiate the turn and the relationship of your turn plane to the bandit's flight path. If you choose to 'turn and burn' with the bandit, then you want to initiate the turn at or slightly above the corner velocity for the aircraft that you are flying. This will give you the maximum turn rate...and minimum turn radius...turn rate is more important than turn radius in this situation.

If you enter the turn at a speed greater than your corner velocity, then you can expect a diminished turn rate and increased turn radius. A slower speed will ultimately result in a tendency to approach the stall sooner than you planned.

Next is the orientation of your turn plane with the bandit's flight path. If you roll to put the bandit at the top of your canopy prior to starting the turn, you are turning in-plane, ie pure pursuit. As a general rule, this is inefficient BFM. Here are some ideas:

If you have an energy advantage over your adversary, roll to place the top of your canopy (your lift vector) above the bandit relative to the horizon. If co-speed or slower than the bandit, roll to put your canopy below the bandit relative to the horizon. Doing this, you are using gravity to your best advantage.

In a head on merge, you want to initiate your turn prior to the bandit passing your wingline...your 3 or 9 o'clock position. If co-speed or close to it, use your canopy frame as a guide. Wait until the bandit passes the aft edge of the side canopy frame...known as the 'canopy bow'...before starting your turn. This is about 45 degrees off your nose to one side or the other. Fly wings level with the bandit with a slight lateral offset...when the bandit passes the canopy bow, roll hard to orient your lift vector as previously described, based upon your speed at the merge.

All turns are based upon the bandit's position and projected flight path, not the horizon. The horizon is used as a secondary reference for the purpose of energy conservation. Do not blindly turn without using the bandit as a reference. You only have three choices...an in-plane turn (lift vector on the bandit) or a turn above or below the bandit's plane of turn.

Now here are some sim considerations. Choose your aircraft wisely. Some are better 'turn and burn' fighters than others. If you want to fight as an 'angles fighter', then fly an angles fighter (Zeke, N1K1, Spitfire, or 202). Other fighters, such as the Me-109G and F4U are better for slash and run tactics...also known as 'boom and zoom' (BnZ) tactics.

Assuming you want to turn with your adversary, get with a trainer and let him look at your basic stick skills. He will be looking at how aggressively you 'pull on the pole', and will be cautioning you about needlessly bleeding airspeed by over controlling pitch.

Also, be aware of the effect of elevator trim on turn performance...in this sim, it appears some pilots get an extra turn advantage thru the use of trim.

BFM skills are not learned over-nite...so give yourself a break and don't expect miracles all at once. Your trainer will pass along helpful hints...then its up to you to put it all together. It will come in time...until then, have fun and don't sweat the small stuff!

Andy

[This message has been edited by Andy Bush (edited 08-28-2000).]

[DaKing]

Thanks alot popeye, Spat n Andy, this info has given me a decent background to practise on, Spat im usually in H2H rooms, once my 2 week trial runs out i dont know if i will re register (pay the money). Maybe we can train together in H2H sometime, give me a buzz via e-mail, or anyone can if u want to make me a better pilot (hehe), daking@umpire.com .

Thanks alot

DaKing

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<(" ^) <("  )> <(  ")> (^ ")> Disco Fever!

[DaKing]

Spat nice, i just looked at your forum info, and u from Wellington, sweet, im from Christchurch, we can arrange time easily then, coolness, i didnt realise that.

S! (Salute)

DaKing

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<(" ^) <("  )> <(  ")> (^ ")> Disco Fever!

[sourkraut]

   

Originally posted by Andy Bush:
Next is the orientation of your turn plane with the bandit's flight path. If you roll to put the bandit at the top of your canopy prior to starting the turn, you are turning in-plane, ie pure pursuit. As a general rule, this is inefficient BFM. Here are some ideas:

If you have an energy advantage over your adversary, roll to place the top of your canopy (your lift vector) above the bandit relative to the horizon. If co-speed or slower than the bandit, roll to put your canopy below the bandit relative to the horizon. Doing this, you are using gravity to your best advantage.

Andy -

I am having a hard time picturing "canopy above/below the bandit relative to the horizon". Can you describe this a little differently or perhaps provide a reference (such as Shaw's)?

Thanks
Sour


[This message has been edited by sourkraut (edited 08-28-2000).]

[DaKing]

Sounds odd, but i sort of picture it, i think this is when u are looking behind to c if anyone no ur 6, im not sure but this is my interpretation of it.

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<(" ^) <("  )> <(  ")> (^ ")> Disco Fever!

[Andy Bush]

Sour

No problem. For a more in depth discussion of this subject, see my "It's All a Matter of Perspective" series of articles at:
 http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/air_combat/air_combat.shtml

Look for the 'high/low wing' discussion in Part Three.

Briefly, here's the idea.

Most will readily agree that all BFM is done with the bandit as the point of orientation. This is certainly true...but is only part of the whole picture. What picture is this? Literally, the 'big picture'! Energy considerations are a big part of our maneuvering game plan. A major factor in energy management is the location of the horizon, ie, the direction of gravity. Therefore, our 'big picture' not only focuses on the bandit but also includes the position of the horizon.

A number of traditional BFM maneuvers have taken their names with the horizon in mind. The 'High' and 'Low' in the High and Low Yo-Yo's refer directly to the orientation of the bandit plane of turn and the horizon. 'High' refers to maneuvering above the bandit's plane of turn relative to the horizon...and the converse is true of the 'Low' term.

In the High Yo-Yo, the aircraft is rolled to orient the lift vector away from the bandit's flight path (plane of turn if the bandit is turning). Then the  aircraft is pulled 'up' to gain separation. The phrase 'maneuvering in the vertical' is often used in this context...but, the term 'vertical' (or 'up') only has significance when the horizon is taken into consideration.

From our cockpit perspective, we use the top of the canopy as a reference for our lift vector. Since our lift vector is a good reference for our flight path, we can visualize an arrow out of the top of our canopy as pointing in the direction we will go when we pull G.

With this in mind, we then use our sim views to orient our lift vector. The most common view is the forward view. We orient the top of the forward view to both the bandit's flight path and horizon to position our lift vector.

Here are some screenshots that may help:

 
 
 


Andy

[DaKing]

Now that makes a helluva lot of sense i especially like the 2nd picture of the High and Low wing area that explains alot, now i know what i have been diong wrong. Andy u been a great help thanks

DaKing

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<(" ^) <("  )> <(  ")> (^ ")> Disco Fever!

[bakerm]

That really helped.  I have some more choices, and it was getting frustrating.     Thanks Mike