Author Topic: Please add Ki-84-I-Otsu (-Ib) for buff hunting?  (Read 2125 times)

Offline rshubert

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Please add Ki-84-I-Otsu (-Ib) for buff hunting?
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2004, 05:05:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
hahemm a typo I thought P39 and wrote P63 ....

Soda add the MB155 for a "perked" french fighter :)


Actually, the Soviets received over 2400 P63s, and used the heck out of them as ground attack aircraft.  Over 1700 were delivered via Alaska by Dec. 1944.  

They were reliable, well armored, and agile at low altitudes.  The 37 mm cannon and 4 .50 cal machine guns gave the bird a pretty good punch, too--but IIRC the 37 mm cannon didn't have much armor piercing capability.



shubie

Offline Rasker

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« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2004, 05:14:53 PM »
With so many P63's, how come no air-to-air kills until August '45?

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2004, 05:27:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rasker
With so many P63's, how come no air-to-air kills until August '45?
 

These were withheld from combat until the Soviets declared war on Japan. I suspect that they were reserved for just this reason. While the P-63 was no great shakes for range when compared to the P-51D and P-47N, it still offered considerably greater range than the Lavochkins and most Yak models. With two 75 gallon drop tanks, it had roughly 4 times the range of the La-7, and very similar performance. Due the greater range requirements of operating against Japan in Manchuria, I suspect they were saved for that need. However, the war ended before they saw any significant action.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Angus

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« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2004, 06:48:58 PM »
I see a possible problem with a Spitfire Mk VIII in particular.
It outperforms our Mk IX in almost all categories, which is already a very fine aircraft. The Mk VIII has very similar performance as the XIV.
But it's from 1943.

So, a 1943 perk ride? Not fair, but unbalancing without the perk tag.

It's just too bleeding good ;)
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2004, 06:49:03 PM »
I see a possible problem with a Spitfire Mk VIII in particular.
It outperforms our Mk IX in almost all categories, which is already a very fine aircraft. The Mk VIII has very similar performance as the XIV.
But it's from 1943.

So, a 1943 perk ride? Not fair, but unbalancing without the perk tag.

It's just too bleeding good ;)
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2004, 08:19:36 PM »
Angus,

Only on 150 Octane.  On 100 Octane the Spit VIII would top out at about 335 to 340mph at sea level and about 410mph at best altitude

The Spit XIV does 358mph at sea level and 446mph at best altitude.
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Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2004, 08:40:49 PM »
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Originally posted by rshubert
Actually, the Soviets received over 2400 P63s, and used the heck out of them as ground attack aircraft.  Over 1700 were delivered via Alaska by Dec. 1944.  



Has it not been proven that it is a myth that the Cobras were used as ground attack a/c?

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2004, 08:44:21 PM »
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
Has it not been proven that it is a myth that the Cobras were used as ground attack a/c?


About million times...

Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2004, 11:26:43 PM »
From "Cobra Bell Aircraft Corperation 1934-46"  and "Cobras Over the Tundra" it appears that deliveries of P63s didn't start until March of 45.

And it seems that the only evidence of action are the two kills claimed in the Far East near the end of the war.

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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2004, 12:02:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
you're not serious... right?

I think we will have Yak-3, but not right now.


The Yak-3 we might get someday would be like a slower but more manouverable Yak-9U, thats it, no wonderplane. It wouldnt add much to the game so its not a priority IMO.  

A set of P39s or early Yaks would be much more useful to fill gaps in the planeset.

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2004, 12:38:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
From "Cobra Bell Aircraft Corperation 1934-46"  and "Cobras Over the Tundra" it appears that deliveries of P63s didn't start until March of 45.

And it seems that the only evidence of action are the two kills claimed in the Far East near the end of the war.

Dan/Slack


P-63C deliveries started in March of '45, but over 1,300 P-63As were delivered before the end of 1944. I have a photo of dozens of P-63As in Soviet colors on the ferry field at Fairbanks, Alaska. The photo was taken in the September of 1944.

Oleg Maddox has dug up references to P-63As being flown against the Luftwaffe in late 1944, with at least one pilot named Devitaev having been shot down by ground fire in December of '44. This limited use may have been part of the Soviet's combat evaluation of the King Cobra. Two squadrons were based near Moscow in late 1944, and may have been rotated into Poland to combat test the fighter.

Maddox provides this information:

My wife is from Germany. Her uncle was a young Luftwaffe Leutnant in charge of an anti-aircraft battery during the war. When we visited Germany this past autumn (he now lives in M?hlheim a. d. Ruhr), he and I talked about some of his war experiences. He told me that in late 1944 outside of Konigsberg (Kaliningrad), his unit was attacked by a flight of P-63s at low level. When I asked him how he knew for certain that these were P-63s and not P-39s or some other type of aircraft, he said:

"Our unit was highly skilled and trained in aircraft recognition...we had to be able to identify all types of aircraft so we would not shoot at friendly planes...we had been briefed that the Russians were receiving P-63s from the Americans and we had studied photos and drawings of them. The P-63s flew over us at only about 15-20 meters that day. I thought they were Airacobras at first, but then I noticed the wing planform was different from the P-39 and I could see the half-exposed tires in the wheel wells. When one of the planes went into a steep banking turn, I could see the taller vertical fin and noticed an ADF loop antenna behind the cockpit, which had never been seen on the P-39. I know for a fact that these were Kingcobras. I even stated this in the report I filed to my command after the attack."

So, the evidence is mounting that P-63s saw limited service against the Luftwaffe. I have seen the testimony of several German pilots who believed that they encountered P-63s. One stated that the "These new Bell fighters easily climbed away from our Focke Wulfs." P-39s don't out-climb 190s. P-63s out-climb them handily. Fully fueled the P-63 can get to 15,000 ft in 3.5 minutes, which is averaging nearly 4,300 fpm!

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2004, 12:53:58 AM »
Thanks Widewing,

There's a paragraph in the Bell book that talks about the Russians refusing to accept more P63As because of a structural defect and that hundreds were grounded in Alaska and various points en route until the reinforcement could take place.

It also says they halted acceptance of P63Cs until the ventral fins were added for the increased stability and making it a better gun platform.

I wonder if that fits with what may have been discovered in the combat eval that apparently took place?

Dan/Slack
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Offline DYGCaps

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« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2004, 03:51:32 AM »
I'd really like to see a Clipped Wing Spit myself...Another Ki-84 would be nice as well, but I don't think we'll see anything soon...or wait, maybe in 2 weeks :D

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2004, 06:18:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Thanks Widewing,

There's a paragraph in the Bell book that talks about the Russians refusing to accept more P63As because of a structural defect and that hundreds were grounded in Alaska and various points en route until the reinforcement could take place.

It also says they halted acceptance of P63Cs until the ventral fins were added for the increased stability and making it a better gun platform.

I wonder if that fits with what may have been discovered in the combat eval that apparently took place?

Dan/Slack


The Soviets believed that the P-63A had a weakness where the tail assembly was attached (not unlike the early Typhoons). Bell disagreed, but reinforced the structure anyway.

I'm relatively certain that only P-63As saw service on the Eastern Front.

I know that the Soviets kept most P-63s in Siberia, probably in anticipation of declaring war on Japan.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Red Tail 444

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« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2004, 10:50:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by paulobrien6969
couldnt agree more guppy,
more spits,
clipped wing would make my day!


Let's just make a special arena for Spitfires, and ban them everywhere else. Use the vacaant spit space for cannon equipped P51's, F4U4B's, P47N's, 109G14's Raidens, 4 cannon Ki 84's, and A67M's.