Kazoo Greatest Hits!

[Virage]

... or the Stall Buzzer Serenade.

I have a Flight Model question.  What tone of the stall buzzer equates to the "Sweet spot"?  That is, the angle of attack (stick back pressure) that produces the optimum radial G for a given airspeed.

 To execute a maximum performance turn do you pull: a) just prior to the buzzer; b) to the first tone of the buzzer; or c) blare away at the stall buzzer on the very brink of dropping a wing?

If HT could find it within his power to make my stick "tickle" i would be most appreciative!

[This message has been edited by Virage (edited 01-06-2001).]

[NHMadmax]

If HTC could also make poss for me to have easy mode to my self and one shot kills then that would suit me fine. LOL

[Lephturn]

I think that is going to depend on what plane you are flying.  I don't think you can make a statement that a certain "sweet spot" is right for every plane.  In fact that would even tend to change as your plane burned fuel I would think.

The answer is to test it yourself and find out.  If you are looking for the best possible turn rate, take your favourite plane offline and do some circles over a 5k airfield and time them.  This is a good idea anyway, since you want to find out if flaps on that particular plane will help, and if so how many notches.  This will tell you what speed or stall horn sound is bet for that plane in a sustained turn.

It's probably more important to know what the best turn speed is for your particular airplane.  While I don't have a chart or anything, I tend to have a pretty good idea for the planes that I fly.  If you post in here what plane or planes you are interested in, I'm sure there are those of us who can help you out with that kind of information.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[Virage]

Thank you for your answer Lephturn.

My question is one of technique more than it is about a particular plane's Corner Speed or best Sustained Rate Speed.

For any given airspeed their is an optimum Angle of Attack that will get the maximum turning performance @ that speed. Pull too hard and the wing Buffets reducing the amount of lift and if overdone will drop the plane out of the sky.  Don't pull enough and you are not getting the maximum performance out of the aircraft.  The ability to maintain the correct Angle of Attack is often referred to Pushing the Envelope or finding the Sweet Spot.

How does HTC model this Sweet Spot.  Without a wing buffet modeled the only input we have is the stall buzzer.  Which "tone" of the stall buzzer is an optimum turning condition?

-ps The modeling of wing buffeting is a feature I enjoy in flight simulations. Anyone else?

[Lephturn]

If it is that simple, and I'm not sure it is, it's just something you have to learn for yourself.  I generally find that if the stall horn is on at all in the planes I find, I am losing performance.  It isn't an angle of attack so much as an airspeed that gives you maximum performance, but I see what you mean.

I use the very onset of stall.  The very low volume early stage, and I try to keep it right on the edge of no buzzer at all.  I think I do it more by "feel" than anything, what I mean is that I notice when the plane mushes out and stops turning as well... when I have crossed that invisible line.  On some planes you can push it closer to the edge, where as on others the stall is very quick and you can't afford to push it as close to the edge as others.

I'm sure at some point HTC will put Force Feedback support in AH.  When they do, I expect one of the only effects folks will use is the stall tickle.  However, that effect I would imagine is simply a force version of the stall horn.  Whether this is an effect you feel or a sound you hear is largely irrelevant.

BTW, what sims have this "wing buffeting" feature that you mention?  Does this work in conjunction with a stall horn?  Don't they sever the same purpose, really?

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[Virage]

Buffeting occurs when turbulent air from the wing comes in contact with the tail planes or when there is air flow separation over the wing.  Both are indicators of a stall.

Can buffeting occur without the stall horn sounding?  I doubt it.

Can the stall horn sound without the plane buffeting?  Most likely.

Each plane has its own stall/buffeting characteristics.

It is a design decision whether to model buffeting or not.  It seems to me that decreased turn performance and stall buzzers are the most popular way to model stall characteristics.  Fighter Ace 1.5 Advanced Flight Model included an audible wing buffeting that begun with a slight tremor and increased to what sounded like the banging of a steel drum with the accompanying bucking of the aircraft.  Pretty close to the real thing. I think Mig Alley also included some wing buffeting but I am not positive.

I know HTC is familiar with wing buffeting but was curious how to "read" the stall buzzer.  I think you answered my question by suggesting to ride the edge of "no buzzer".  I'll give it a go!