Author Topic: What is the price of treachery?  (Read 1087 times)

Offline Tali

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2004, 06:22:37 PM »
Sites was there, with the willing support of the military, as a front line journalist, he was under military reporting restrictions, IF they had deemed the video as being a security threat, it would have been held back, he reported legitimate news...not nice news, not helpful to the US cause news. He was risking his life with less equipment and training than the soldiers he was with. Either you stop the media from being so close to the frontlines, or you let them and accept the consequences. Give the military more of a free hand to get on with the job and not worry about the media, cos they/the government are doing all the reports themselves, or you have frontline journalists.....at the moment as 'western democracy's' that hail the freedom of the press we have the latter....don't like it, then vote for a party that will censor the press

Offline Sparks

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2004, 07:45:11 PM »
So Kiljoy - who has Stiles the greater loyalty to - your military or your country ?????  Found this somewhere ...... :rolleyes:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; ............

Seems to me you have this freedom of speech thing which was actually put in the Bill of Rights to STOP the sensorship of the press when there are things the government might not want the people to know.

Or are you saying you're only free to say what the government wants at the time??

Regardless of money or motive anyone has the RIGHT to say or print what he wants - your democracy is supposedly strong enought to take the results.  If a US citizen wanted to set up Al-jazeera in Chicago he is protected by your own Bill of Rights to do so. You may not like it but it a foundation stone of your country.

Offline DREDIOCK

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2004, 08:01:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
By the way, exactly why aint there no more live coverage of what happens in Iraq?


Same reason you no longer hear each and every persons name killed or wounded there complete with background information.

Its no longer big news.
I beleive the media typse would call it being "played out"

BTW just to add my 2 cents to the original post on this thread.

Totally unjustified attack on this reporter.
He recorded and reported what he saw.

Wasnt treachery at all.
Was freedom of the press in action.

Cant only have freedom of the press apply for only the things we like.

Same thing with freedom of speach.
If you only have the freedom to say things that are popular. then its not really free now is it.

example
Now I may not like and may detest it of someone calls a white person a currupt cracker, or a black man a  N*****. Or a hispanic a spic.
But, they absolutely positively have the right to say it.
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Offline SLO

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2004, 08:15:29 PM »
Right, shoot the messenger for bringing you the truth.

Offline EN4CER

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2004, 08:16:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Was freedom of the press in action.


DRED - Good Point - Sometimes you should take one for the Home Team tho?

Offline Sparks

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2004, 08:29:07 PM »
En4cer - personal choice.

My point is that his use of the freedom of speech in his own country has labeled him treacherous in his own country.  Now if he had sold that video direct to Al-Jazeera for mega bucks without airing in US then you may have a point about treachery but to do something that the Bill of Rights specifically allows ???

Offline -tronski-

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2004, 08:47:06 PM »
It's an unfortunate fact of war that sometimes no quarter is given in battle.

While I personally have very little tolerance of anyone who would kill prisoners in cold blood after prisoners are policed up and processed, on the battlefield even the best intentioned commit such actions. Some still treat war as a game when it clearly is not.

The real problem here, as premised by the post heading, is the obvious destruction in the belief of a free and independant press - the corner stone of any true democracy. From the embedding of press, to the patriotic grandstanding of ALL the american networks, it makes any independant reporting that is not along the approved lines suddenly sedition instead of what it should be considered: the truth.

 Tronsky
God created Arrakis to train the faithful

Offline Killjoy2

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2004, 09:15:06 PM »
This is a great country and a great game.  Where else can you hunt down and kill everybody who disagrees with you.

I'll see you in the skies.

Offline DREDIOCK

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2004, 09:30:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by EN4CER
DRED - Good Point - Sometimes you should take one for the Home Team tho?


That is a matter of how you personally feel about it.

At which point do you stop being just a reporter and start being an American?

Interestingly enough Assuming he speaks the truth he did offer to withold it
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline DREDIOCK

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2004, 09:31:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
Right, shoot the messenger for bringing you the truth.


The "Truth" is all in the eye of the beholder.

Your truth, and anothers may be two entirely different things.
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline DREDIOCK

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2004, 09:35:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Killjoy2
This is a great country and a great game.  Where else can you hunt down and kill everybody who disagrees with you.

I'll see you in the skies.


Damn good point.
and what I should be doing right now.

Happy hunting.

Just remember

  /IT\ KILLS!  ///oo\\\
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Charon

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2004, 10:44:23 PM »
The embed process was the brainchild of Victoria Clark, former Pentagon Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs. I saw an interview with her a few days ago (after the Marine incident) and she was still very happy with the way the process has worked. The military and White House have been happy too, and with good reason. Here is the idea behind the process, in Clarke's and Rumsfelds words:

Quote
"We need to tell the factual story -- good and bad -- before others seed the media with disinformation and distortions, as they most certainly will continue to do," Rumsfeld and Clarke wrote.

"Our people in the field need to tell our story. Only commanders can ensure the media get to the story alongside the troops. We must organize for and facilitate access of national and international media to our forces, including those forces engaged in ground operations....To accomplish this, we will embed media with our units. These embedded media will live, work and travel as part of the units...to facilitate maximum, in-depth coverage."
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/877282/posts


The process has worked exceedingly well. Most of the footage being shot shows heroic American Marines and soldiers taking the fight to the bad guys. The dramatic drive into Baghdad, "Where do we get guys like these..." images and soundbytes that not only instill pride in the American people, but no doubt help move some percentage of young men and women to make the trip to the recruiter's office.

To my estimation it works too well. The media was way to soft on the Administration leading up to the war. Practically gave it a free ride where issues like how much, how long and at what cost were concerned. It wouldn't be surprising to learn that those asking tough questions would be traveling with the 193rd Field Kitchen Unit vs. some Cav trooper's Bradley. Something similar happened to Helen Thomas when, for the first time in decades, she was left off the list for the final pre-war White House press conference.

Once in the field, when something bad happens the journalists understand the context better having been there. But, they also now have a personal connection with the troops (sharing danger and hardship) which leads to the temptation to self-edit and soften the story. Similarly, I would imagine the fear of loosing good access to the people and places you need can be a nagging pressure. Really quite brilliant. Carrot, stick and empathy all rolled into one, and likely leading to a higher level of favorable coverage than you would expect otherwise.

If anything the Marine clip shows that the media hasn't been fully co-opted quite yet, and that some journalists aren't too afraid to leave the green zone and get in the line of fire and do their jobs. The bad with the good, or it's just another dispatch from the ministry of propaganda.

Charon
« Last Edit: November 25, 2004, 11:34:18 PM by Charon »

Offline Nash

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2004, 10:50:42 PM »
Good post Charon.

Embedded journalists = baaaad journalism.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2004, 11:12:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Good post Charon.

Embedded journalists = baaaad journalism.


And  keeping the press in the rear with the gear around the big briefing tents like in the first gulf war makes for what kind of journalism...

What is your suggestion Nash?

Offline Sixpence

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What is the price of treachery?
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2004, 11:31:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
And  keeping the press in the rear with the gear around the big briefing tents like in the first gulf war makes for what kind of journalism...What is your suggestion Nash?


I think that his post has some sarcasm, ah, embedded
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)