Author Topic: Pyro Ki84 performance issues (Read 1478 times)

Widewing · « **Reply #15 on:** November 25, 2004, 01:24:17 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak

Yes, that is true in the short term, but once the Gs drop to below the blackout threshold the American aircraft turn better due to their high speed combat flaps. Once the speed drops to the point where the Ki-84 can get it's combat flaps into play it turns back to the Ki-84's favor. The problem the Ki-84 has is that it is quite dificult to keep it that slow and you can easily find yourself above your flap speed and handing the advantage back to the Americans.

While the American fighters (P-51s, P-38, F4U and P-40) can get their flaps down at higher speeds, it won't help them at all. Why?
Because the Ki-84 can easily cancel that advantage by pulling the nose high. Of those listed, only the P-38 can manage that, and the Hayate is still markedly superior. If you get the flaps out in any of the above, while fighting a Ki-84, you will die. That's always the option with the Hayate, you can high yo-yo these planes to death.

What I like most about the Hayate is its ability to equalize E states very quickly. If you are Co-E with the Ki-84, you are likely to die. I find that 109s and La-7s continue to try fighting the Hayate in the vertical. And, they continue to pay for that.

Most guys have no clue what the Ki-84 can do. I had an La-7 attack me with a ton of E. 60 seconds later he was on the deck trying to scissor with the Hayate...Something he should not have tried. Another La-7 dragged me to his base where more fighters were waiting. Down went the La-7 and two SpitVs that tried to help him. In my opinion, the Ki-84 can turn with the SpitV once it gets the fowlers fully out. However, you don't have to do that since you can simply pull the nose high, which the SpitV cannot match. I prefer to keep the Hayate near corner velocity and use vertical maneuvering to gain the advantage.

I'm hoping that Pyro's adjustments include improved acceleration. This fighter should accelerate better than it does. I also hope he addresses the elevator issue. The Ki-84 shouldn't need so much nose-down trim at medium speeds. Climb rate seems ok, it drops off considerably between 8k and 14k, but levels off when the second stage of the supercharger kicks in and remains constant until 18k were it begins to drop off again.

My regards,

Widewing

Mitsu · « **Reply #16 on:** November 25, 2004, 02:03:22 AM »

I just want to know what will be changed.

save · « **Reply #17 on:** November 25, 2004, 03:47:59 AM »

IRL a spit5 would be hopeless outdated byt the tíme ki84 entered serivice.

ki84 can chose to fight when he wants,
because spit5 is slooow compared, again IRL.

ki84 has combat flaps, a feature shared with p51 mustang and some other brands,
making turning easier ( or at least should be easier to turn)

ki84 was fast and agile,but unreliable engines and 1944 production quality made it hard to maintain in the field.

MANDO · « **Reply #18 on:** November 25, 2004, 02:04:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
How is that a "miracle" engine?

3900 fps, 134GPH, no heating problems, range of 115 miles at max military power with 50% fuel at 166 mph while climbing.
Do you need more?

Kaz · « **Reply #19 on:** November 25, 2004, 07:57:53 PM »

Hey SLO

looks like you got a response already and then some

Blue Mako · « **Reply #20 on:** November 25, 2004, 09:30:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDO
3900 fps, 134GPH, no heating problems, range of 115 miles at max military power with 50% fuel at 166 mph while climbing.
Do you need more?

I'm thinking that Mandoble has found a worthy successor to his Spit whines of old.

Karnak · « **Reply #21 on:** November 25, 2004, 11:09:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDO
3900 fps, 134GPH, no heating problems, range of 115 miles at max military power with 50% fuel at 166 mph while climbing.
Do you need more?

So you're saying that a plane that consumes fuel faster at MIL power than a Spitfire Mk IX or Bf109G-2 is unbelievable?

It doesn't have heating problems in AH because it doesn't have any WEP. It consumes fuel slightly faster than the Spit IX and markedly faster than the Bf109G-2 at MIL power. It carries more fuel than both combined, IIRC.

I don't understand what the problem is here.

gatt · « **Reply #22 on:** November 26, 2004, 04:04:58 AM »

Does it mean that a/c without WEP dont overheat and/or can push the throttle to gate without limits? C'mon Karnak ....

The real C.205's DB605A didnt have any WEP, however AH's C.205 has his maximum power limited to 5 minutes.

I know this is a game but some consistency would not hurt.

Karnak · « **Reply #23 on:** November 26, 2004, 09:55:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by gatt
Does it mean that a/c without WEP dont overheat and/or can push the throttle to gate without limits? C'mon Karnak ....

In AH that is one of the characteristics of not overboosting. All aircraft that run at MIL power, even if they have an overboost, do not overheat.

In reality running at overboost did not overheat an engine under normal circumstances. The effect it had was to reduce the time between maintainance overhauls.

MANDO · « **Reply #24 on:** November 26, 2004, 01:24:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
So you're saying that a plane that consumes fuel faster at MIL power than a Spitfire Mk IX or Bf109G-2 is unbelievable?

Ok, then go and compare Spit IX, 109G2 and Ki-84 performance all at MIL, not just Ki84 vs anyting on WEP.

Nah Blue Mako, it is simply that some people here think AH Ki84 is a crappy plane while it is not.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 26, 2004, 01:55:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDO
3900 fps, 134GPH, no heating problems, range of 115 miles at max military power with 50% fuel at 166 mph while climbing.
Do you need more?

First of all, the climb rate is in FPM, not FPS. A bit anal perhaps, but accuracy is important if you are going to post test results.

Second, 3900 FMP is a little higher than most folks have found it to be in testing, are you rounding that up a bit? Its not far off the official numbers of around 3700 FMP. It should begin to fall off at higher altitudes. Did you repeat the tests to check for accuracy? Or is this a one-off test? And I'm not saying your test results are WRONG, I'm just asking.

Third, why should the Ki-84 exhibit heating problems at full throttle use? Nothing else in AHII does, are you suggesting that they include this as a feature for all planes? Or are you trying to say that the Ki-84 in particular should be handicapped in some way that no other plane is? If so, why?

Thanks.

SA2

Mitsu · « **Reply #26 on:** November 26, 2004, 03:18:41 PM »

MANDO_TROLL

Widewing · « **Reply #27 on:** November 26, 2004, 05:58:35 PM »

Hammer has documented the climb rate of the Ki-84 on netaces. You can see it here: Ki-84 climb

My regards,

Widewing