American jailed for life for murder of British police officer.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by hawker238
How do you conclude they have plenty?

Supply and demand.  If they didn't there wouldn't be anyone shot now, would there? They'd be stabbed to death.

[hawker238]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Supply and demand.  If they didn't there wouldn't be anyone shot now, would there? They'd be stabbed to death.

You don't know that.  Maybe there's a gross undersupply of guns in the criminal world.  When one person is murdered by a gun, you can't conclude all demand is met.

[Steve]

public execution is the single most effective crime deterrent.... hang  him slowly in the square.

[beet1e]

Ripsnort.

You're still living in your black and white vision of utopia. To you, unless a law works 100%, it should be repealed. I'm sure the speed limit gets broken daily in the town where you live. What do you suggest - repeal all speed limits?

Our gun laws DO work, but like any other law (eg. speed limits) there isn't a 100% success rate.

So why not allow citizens (and especially police officers) to defend themselves?

We may well have an armed police force within 20 years, but don't think that's going to the panacea to all crimes. You seem to overlook the fact that Ian Broadhurst was the only police officer killed in Britain last year.

So - give everyone lots of guns? Arm the police? In America, even though your police are heavily armed, around 70 of them are killed each year in the line of duty, as compared with NONE most years in Britain.

I rest my case.

[RTGorkle]

Beetle, what's the reasoning behind the Bobby on the beat not being armed?

[Nashwan]

They've got plenty.

What makes you think they've got plenty?

One policeman has been shot dead in the last 7 years, afaik (in the US, it's around 50 every year). Around 60 people were murdered with a gun in Britain last year, around 10,000 in the US.

Guns were used in 4% of British robberies last year, they were used in 40% of US robberies.

That suggests US criminals have plenty of guns, it's doesn't suggest that for Britain.

Beetle, what's the reasoning behind the Bobby on the beat not being armed?

There's always been a feeling that as the criminals rarely carried guns, there wasn't a need.

It's worth noting that 11 of the 52 police officers murdered in the US last year were killed with their own guns. I'm fairly sure if the British police were fully armed, you'd have a similar situation, with more policemen being killed with their own guns than are being killed now when they are unarmed.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by RTGorkle
Beetle, what's the reasoning behind the Bobby on the beat not being armed?

Nashwan answered it. They've never been armed as a matter of course, but that is changing slowly.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by beet1e
Nashwan answered it. They've never been armed as a matter of course, but that is changing slowly.

Why is it changing?

[beet1e]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Why is it changing?

The areas where I first noted change were at airports. I remember thinking - OMG, the police have guns. It's changing just as security is changing/has changed at US airports since 911. Also, our police have had the IRA to deal with - many bomb outrages in the 1970s.

[GRUNHERZ]

911 might obviously change things at airports, but are regular street cops carrying weapons more now?

[beet1e]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
are regular street cops carrying weapons more now?

No. Not as a matter of course - yet. I was surprised to see a cop in Salisbury with what Lazs tells me was a Heckler & Koch MP5. Why Salisbury? It's a quiet town, but...

...this was in the square where former PM Edward Heath lives. And what with all the kerfuffle with Bloody Sunday, which occurred when he was PM, I think the police were taking precautions against the IRA or whatever...

[mora]

To me an unarmed police is a big joke. What keeps the perps from assaulting officers if they have only a stick to defend themselves? You could give them knives at the very least.

OTOH your system seems to work pretty well.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by mora
What keeps the perps from assaulting officers if they have only a stick to defend themselves?  

Probably the fact that most of them can't get guns. And as you say, our system seems to work pretty well. Admittedly, it's not perfect, and we've always had armed criminals in Britain, but we don't have hundreds of cops killed each decade. The only three I can think of in the past 20 years are Ian Broadhurst (2003) Keith Blakelock (1985 - killed by knife) and Yvonne Fletcher (1984) - killed by machine gun bullet fired from the Libyan Embassy.

[mora]

While they don't have guns they may have bigger sticks. I could never imagine unarmed cops here. Even if it's quite rare for police to use firearms their presence creates a fair amount of respect. If yours manage without them, then good for them.

[Muckmaw1]

Originally posted by Nashwan
What makes you think they've got plenty?

One policeman has been shot dead in the last 7 years, afaik (in the US, it's around 50 every year). Around 60 people were murdered with a gun in Britain last year, around 10,000 in the US.

Guns were used in 4% of British robberies last year, they were used in 40% of US robberies.

That suggests US criminals have plenty of guns, it's doesn't suggest that for Britain.



There's always been a feeling that as the criminals rarely carried guns, there wasn't a need.

It's worth noting that 11 of the 52 police officers murdered in the US last year were killed with their own guns. I'm fairly sure if the British police were fully armed, you'd have a similar situation, with more policemen being killed with their own guns than are being killed now when they are unarmed.

You have to compare these numbers per capita. There's almost 300 million people in America. How many in the UK?

How many murders in the UK involving a blunt instrument, or Knife or other means? VS. the US per capita.