Did the tests again under new settings.
In the previous thread, Hitech explained that the stall limiter doesn't take into account factors such as slats. Thus, he has recommended that the stall limiter(hereafter SL) setting be altered on some planes that cannot handle full stick defelction on minimal settings.
Thus, the new test criteria is as follows:
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* Tested planes: Bf109G-6, P-47D-11, P-51D
* All planes have maximum internal fuel load.
* Fuel burn set to minimum
* Test altitude at 200ft ASL
* P-51D and P-47D uses SL setting of 0.05
* Bf109G-6 uses SL setting of 1.0
* All planes were turned to its left
* All planes use full military power, no WEP
* The turns were stabilized with alt loss/gain of less than 50ft for 360 degrees full circle
* Speed and G loading was measured
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Test Results 
The standard E-M Diragram was used for measuring turn rate for given speed and G loading.
P-47D-11, no flaps- 145mph TAS(212ft/s), 1.9G
- 14.3 degrees per second turn rate
- 25.1 seconds for full 360 turn
- turning circle: 1773.1 yards
P-47D-11, full flaps- 110mph TAS(161.3ft/s), 1.6G
- 17.3 degrees per second turn rate
- 20.8 seconds for full 360 turn
- turning circle: 1118.3 yards
P-51D, no flaps- 157mph TAS(230.2ft/s), 2G
- 14 degrees per second turn rate
- 25.7 seconds for full 360 turn
- turning circle: 1972yd circle
P-51D, full flaps- 120mph(176ft/s), 1.9G
- 17.2 degrees per second turn rate
- 20.9 seconds for full 360 turn
- turning circle: 1226.1 yards
Bf109G-6, no flaps- 152mph(222.9ft/s), 2.3G
- 16.9 degrees per second turn rate
- 21.3 seconds for full 360 turn
- turning circle: 1582.5 yards
Bf109G-6, full flaps- 130mph(190.6ft/s), 2G
- 16.6 degrees per second turn rate
- 21.6 seconds for full 360 turn
- turning circle: 1372.3 yards
Planes in order of best turn rate under normal circumstances1. Bf109G-6 (16.9d/s)
2. P-47D-11 (14.3d/s)
3. P-51D (14d/s)
Planes in order of smallest turning circle under normal circumstances1. Bf109G-6 (1582.5yds)
2. P-47D-11 (1773.1yds)
3. P-51D (1972yds)
Planes in order of best turn rate under full flap usage1. P-47D-11 (17.3d/s)
2. P-51D (17.2d/s)
3. Bf109G-6 (16.6d/s)
Planes in order of smallest turning circle under full flap usage1. P-47D-11, (1118.3 yards)
2. P-51D, (1226.1 yards)
3. Bf109G-6, (1372.3 yards)
Conclusion and Analogy This test does not represent the optimum turning rates of any of the planes given. It compares the turn rates, turning circle, and turning speed of the planes when it enters
a contest of the tightest turn possible.
1. SL settings and Slats The difference in SL settings needs some explanation. The P-47 and the P-51 can both handle a SL setting of 0.05, which means these planes can fly at 0.05 degrees before reaching critical AoA.
The Bf109G-6, in the very first tests used the same 0.05 setting. However, Hitech's comments confirm that this is not an accurate representation of critical AoA in certain settings.
The Bf109G-6 used 1.0 setting. Above approximately 0.3 setting, the Bf109G-6 still encountered noticeable destabilization in the roll and yax axis, but the effect could be controlled, and the plane continued turning in an oscillation of flight path.
At SL setting of 1.0, the turning path did not oscillate, and the Bf109G-6 could maintain a stable turn throughout the whole 360degrees. Thus, in a technical sense, it could be set that at SL settings between 0.3 and 1.0,
the Bf109G-6 was flying in a controlled stall status.
Therefore, my initial suspicions that the Bf109 was stalling before its critical AoA, is proven to be
false. The 109 was not stalling before critical AoA when it wobbled around. It actually exceeded its critical AoA which it could maintain a stable turn, and was turning in a wobbly, unstable flight path.
This means the critical AoA of the Bf109G-6 is in reality, 1 degrees before the AoA set by the stall limiter to be "critical".
While the Bf109 does
stal, the neutralizing effects of the slats enable them to continue maneuvering in a stalled status - therefore, the Bf109G-6 can
"mush through" the turn about 0.7 degrees over its critical AoA. Over 0.7 degrees critical AoA, and even the slats cannot prevent any more serious destabiliztion, thus, the turn is interrupted.
2. Comparisons in turning abilities Under normal circumstances, it is confirmed that theoretically,
the Bf109G-6 will outturn the P-47 and the P-51.
However, once the contest reaches an extreme point where flaps are to be used,
the P-47 and the P-51 will outturn the Bf109G-6. It is true, that the above explained effect of slats will enable a Bf109 to turn "tighter" by "mushing" through stalls. Therefore, in actual practice there is a possibility that the Bf109G-6 will overcome the stated figures and numbers above, utilize the "mushing", and outturn the P-47 or the P-51.
However, for that theory to be valid it needs a premise that the P-47 and P-51 will be interrupted in their turns immediately when it too, reaches critical AoA. The beneficial effects of the slats will enable the Bf109G-6 to maneuver over its critical AoA.
However, there are no guarantees that the same may not hold true for the P-51 and the P-47. While it is questionable and/or presumable that the P-47 or the P-51 may not be able to tolerate a stalling status for such a long time as the Bf109G, it remains that the P-47 and P-51 can also continue maneuvering under stalled status for a certain period of time - which is ofcourse, up to the pilot. The "tricks" in turn fighting which a Bf109 may use, can be also used for the P-51D or the P-47D.
Thus, in a prolonged battle of such harsh maneuvering, the contestants will be forced into a fight to turn tightest as possible - which flaps will take serios part in.
Once such maneuvering contest begins, the P-51D and the P-47D is superior over the Bf109G-6 in overall ease of such maneuvering(due to its very large advantage stability), and actual/absolute numbers.
The P-47D and the P-51D, will outturn the Bf109G-6 for sure, and it will do so with much less effort than the Bf109G-6 pilot has to muster, to simply try to keep with those planes. It is interesting to note that while the differences are very small, the P-47D-11 will outmaneuver the P-51D, which is generally thought to hold a certain advantage over its predecessor workhorse in the European theater. If we take into account a certain margin of errors, it could be said that the P-47D-11,
at least turns as good as a P-51D.
Since a close-combat includes much more factors than turning, in a tactical sense the P-51D can be considered superior to the P-47D thanks to its other traits such as climb or speed. However, in pure maneuvering the P-47 and the P-51D does not show any large differences.
Also, another thing to note is that the stall limiter will generally make it easier for a pilot to reach the extreme limits of the plane's envelope - as he needs not worry about going over it.
The implications are clear.
The test conditions are more or less purely theoretic, and will be a valid comparison when we expect all of the pilots to push the plane to its limits to the extreme. In a more general, conceivable case, usually an average pilot in the P-47, P-51, or the Bf109G-6, will not be able to achieve such results.
However, the relative ease of flight characteristics makes it presumable that the P-51 or the P-47, will be able to push further near the limits on a more regular basis, than compared to the Bf109.
Therefore, in overall conclusion, about half of my initial claims need to be dropped, and half of them still remain.
There is nothing wrong with how the slats are working, and the slats will help a pilot push over the limits of the 109(albeit with a certain risk).
However, in slow-speed maneuvering contests, the P-47 and/or the P-51 is still superior to the Bf109G upto an uncomfortable level. Only under normal conditions will the Bf109 really outturn any of them.
Considering the fact that both adversaries of the Bf109 can start deployment of its flaps at least 200mph IAS before the Bf109, it is highly likely that the Bf109 will never gain any kind of real 'edge' when it comes to low speed fights with these planes.
The only arsenal left for the Bf109, other than the wits of the pilot, is its ability in climb and acceleration. In a loose sense, there is about the Bf109 to be considered "superior" to the P-51 or the P-47, when it comes to pure maneuvering performance.
